Shattered Kingdoms

I mean no derailing the thread after what -I- am derailing it to!

What, so you could wield all the wooden ones I'm implementing?

The problem with the reaching weapon class is that you're only ever using a reaching weapon in one situation - when you aren't a tank, and you're trying to make someone who is a tank die fast. If it's someone who isn't a tank, then they'll just die even faster, so there's no reason to change weapons/tactics.

If something is a superior choice in a situation, it will (usually) be the only choice made among those that use reach weapons at all. Right now, you'll see variations between glaive/halberd/bill, but that's usually what you're going to see specced with the way things are set up now.

There isn't a diversity to the situations ranged weapons are used in like there are with one-hander/melee weapons. Right now you have a system where you have mercs/barbs/hellions/paladins using a specific set of ranged weapons, a scout which uses spears, bard which uses whips, and then you have the rest of the classes that'll only use a ranged weapon for levelling (priests/early shamans/etc using polemace/poleaxe). Obviously the first four classes do the best with ranged damage, mercs and barbs astronomically ahead due to spec/fury.

Massive right now is pretty buff (especially with spec/fury), but gimping the damage will either: make it weaker yet but still the top choice, or make another the top choice and the entire system shift again. You can change which weapon type is the best, but once you do, everyone will shift towards moving that. If you're looking to validate a wider range of weapon classes, here's three ideas:

-Be more selective with which classes get access to what weapons, severely buff polemace/poleaxe. At that point, you'll still have the top of the game for each set, there'll just be more sets to make use of it.

-Implement bonuses against certain weapon types. Maybe, say, polearms rock against swords but suck against spears and maces? Spears are trashy against swords, but good versus axes. Just random examples, but you'd build variety into the system by nature of player choices and building a pro/con system into every choice depending on your enemy.

-Go back to the time when ranged weapons only got 1 (potentially nerfed) attack/round if there wasn't atleast 1 rank between attacker and the attacked. It'd bring a huge shift in the necessity of having another weapon class on stand by, but it wouldn't change only 1 polearm type being used.

Random thoughts...

My mercenary can easily lose 1/3 of her movement pool fighting one NPC. That's with max con and move trains. I think it drains quite a bit, personally. Just to put it into perspective I easily lose 3x much as movement using a bill spec than I do with a crossbow spec. It's very noticeable.

Weapons to level with is just based off of what does the most damage, especially when a character is only getting 1-2 swings a round. Really has nothing to do with the massive bonus, and more to do with those types of weapons that do the most damage.

Massive weapons are good, yeah, but there are significant drawbacks to using them, and they're only good in the situations they're good in. And they're already not as good as they used to be pre-wimp. Massive weapons were ridiculously good back then.

The problem, Dulrik, is that the massive flag was in many cases applied to weapon subtypes that were already superior in many cases. Or, in the case of a lot of the two-handed weapons without reach, the massive buff is not enough to out-weigh the drawbacks of subtype or using something like that from the front row.

Jerin's certainly right that you can shift the emphasis to another weapon or set of subtypes, but the very subtype system is set up to have a clear "best" of each weapon skill, and regardless of whether it's due to just straight subtype stats or additional flags (reach, massive, etc) the system's working.

If you're going to have a system that essentially invalidates the weaker stat choices from the weapon trees and makes obvious bests exist in the same, you're always going to have a certain group that are used exclusively or in the majority. No amount of tweaking is going to remove that, only shift the focus.

Massive weapons perform just about the same as any other weapon type. Even at the high end with fury/specialize a character is typically limited to 3 attacks a round. It's just not possible to keep haste up 24/7. There are already some relatively obscene penalties to using such weaponry as well. Increased movement, decreased chance to parry, and in most cases the lack of a shield to mitigate damage.

There's just been an utter lack of dominant users of massive weapons in any case. There has been Iali, Razqua and Zyander. All of these characters have had massive weapon specs and have been demolished. So while some of you are quick to point out how good things can be, it can also be pointed out how bad things have been.

Two of those guys were pre-wimp to massive weapons too.

The problem is with reaching massive. And the fact that you can give massive weapons to NPCs.

Front row massive weapons have the clear drawback of..you having to be front row with what is generally a 2-h weapon.

Reaching massive has no drawback when it comes to PvP.

If you have access to the polearm subtype, there is 0 reason to not use a halberd/bill/glaive when in the 2nd row.

If you don't have haste, halberd/bill/glaive sucks bigtime.

That said, before this change there was also zero reason to ever use any polearm ever except pike.

Despite the fact that you lose more PE for it being BOTH massive, and reaching, and suffer -1 attack if you end up in the front row taking hits? Also that they tend to have lower accuracy so it is both easier to disarm them, and harder to disarm with them. Also is easier for the victim to dodge/parry.

Maybe there's more to the game than hiding behind a NPC, and catching unwitting newbs off guard with no buffs, and that don't have pets!

Can we please try to go one thread without this bs?

You play a Tribunal merc, spec'd in bill and crossbow.

rofl