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Training HP versus other stats
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=25192		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Quaa [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Training HP versus other stats
How effective to training only HP stats compared to other stats? Is it worth it? Given that we dont have an enchanter on hand.
Author:  grep [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
I do not believe the information I have calculated is of an appropriate scope for discussion on the forums, so I will just report that it wouldn't take more than an hour of time nor mathematics beyond basic algebra to research the answer to your question.

I'll give you a hint:

Image
Author:  Quaa [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
Thanks grep. Helped a bunch.
Author:  grep [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
It's nowhere near the amount of help I want to give you, but providing you with my SK Mathematica notebook just doesn't feel like it would be appropriate. In the end, the real decision rules will be based on your character's intended playstyle. Your mileage will vary if you take any one person's overly-simplified advice. In light of the general boundaries on what can and cannot be freely shared, my most emphasized suggestion is to do some of your own testing.

One poorly-documented piece of forum knowledge I think I can highlight is that training a resource such as mana or hitpoints directly will give you more resource bang-for-buck than other stats that may contribute to the pool, both in terms of raw increase and the regeneration bonuses you get for it. Of course, you still need to ask, is that effective? That answer depends on the environment you expect to encounter. What are you gaining? What are the opportunity costs? How often have you found yourself wanting either in the past? All things to ask. Some players will say only one mechanical approach is best. Such likelihood maximization might be of interest to you if you agree with the assumptions involved.

The best way to claw your way out of newbie status in any environment is to ask questions, think critically, and test often.
Author:  Cordance [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
I could be wrong but I believe it has been stated by D that move/hp/mp give more of numbers than similar stats like con dex wis. However that being said those other stats give you other things like fort ref will save. As far as if they are useful, I have always felt that if your going to commit to one of those behind stats you need to commit hard as Greps graph shows.
Author:  Gilgon [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
Quaa wrote:
How effective to training only HP stats compared to other stats? Is it worth it? Given that we dont have an enchanter on hand.


On any class/race combo I would max my hp. HP has no maximum, whereas str/dex/con/wis/int/cha have maximums that are very easily reached with 1 +8/+9 stat item.
Author:  Cordance [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
Something I am also not 100% sure about is that HP trains do not equal the same thing as Hp enchants as far as regeneration goes similar to Charisma and trained vs enchanted when it comes to XP. Also something to keep in mind HP/Mana/art trains are capped by class not race. However unlike stats capped by race things capped by class can be enchanted higher than the max trains.
Author:  Edoras [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
Grep, stop trolling. It's insulting to tell someone who comes to the forums asking for advice simply to "do their own testing" instead of offering anything remotely meaningful.

I'm inclined to agree with Gilgon on this one. Training HP is always going to give you a good benefit, and it's generally a good idea to max HP on just about every class. The downside worth considering is that training HP does make you more EQ-reliant for your other stats. As a result, if you're not a min-maxer and/or are willing to sacrifice high-end potential for less frustration in EQ-prep, then you may not want to max HP trains. That said, with the advent of being able to enchant non-stacking stats directly on jewelry, most people are able to min-max enough on their stats to afford to max HP.

On one hand as a min-maxer, I always suggest keeping all of your important stats except for -maybe- STR and DEX (Since GS and Haste don't stack with enchanted stat mods) a minimum of four off of their natural limit so that you have extra trains for things like HP and maybe mana/art as a caster. On the other hand, as a person with limited time on his hands to play anyway, I have to say that if you don't want to have to get a priest/sorc to re-enchant stat mods every time you die, then maybe those extra 4 HP trains aren't worth it in your eyes.

For reference, I am also pretty sure that training HP does give you more HP directly than training CON (Except potentially in the highest of CON rankings? Citation needed), and training HP also helps with your HP regen.
Author:  Drewbag [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
I used to be a noob that maxed my natural stats instead of HP/mana/art... I have learned better.

With easy access to +12 to your stats from store-bought items, and with the changes to enchant, I would max hp on every character. In fact, the only extra stat that I do not really worry about now is PE--with max CON and DEX from items, you shouldn't need that much PE anyways. The only attribute that really helps to keep naturally high is CHA, since only your natural CHA relates to your xp bonus (then again, after you learn the ropes and people help you train, you might find getting to GM easy with even mediocre CHA).

PS: Each of those store-bought items will hold an extra +4 from enchanting (might take a couple tries), so you can essentially get +6 to each attribute if you needed with relative ease.

edit: Everything Edoras said is good advice.
Author:  Baranov [ Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Training HP versus other stats
For the record training PE can actually be very helpful. Certainly not integral, but after getting extra stat points to spend from lots of mentoring and putting 1 or 2 in PE I noticed a SIGNIFICANT difference in my character's PE usage/regen vs a fellow warrior's in the group. Actually saved my life a few times.
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