Shattered Kingdoms

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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:35 pm 
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amandagreathouse wrote:
I started playing 2-3 months ago. Glad to even see these questions and now to see how quickly I can show off my newbiedom:

1. My favorite so far is the one in Taslamar. While all of the newbie areas are good, I like the arena with the scripts and that it pays well and also has npcs who have a lot of interesting reactions that change up and they tap out rather than dying. That said, my favorite newbie area weapons are in Kytar because you can say the weapon type you want in the store and get the display to change, but this doesn't seem to be the case with all the starting areas. I really like the one in the North as well, and for much the same reasons, but the lack of newbie supplies/variety of supplies keeps it down a little.
2. Kytar. While I like it a lot overall, it and the one in the Northern Wastes are the only two I've had issues with. In Kytar it was an ooze that pops up in the pond where you can get stuck in a feedback loop as outlined in the bug thread on it. In I think it was the north, it makes you go through a portal that turned out to be so not intuitive that I just deleted because I couldn't get from the tutorial to the newbie area the first time.
3. Be intuitive for new players ie syntax, have weapons all classes can use, include a set of cloth, light, and heavy armor (this seemed an issue in Kytar, though I have not been there in a month or so, not certain).
5. Books in the rest of the newbie areas like in the one (I think in Uxmal?) where all the trainers have books and scrolls on class appropriate stuff for all the classes, ie a book on the Gods near the cleric trainer, a scroll or two near the bard trainer, and so on.


I appreciate your point on the ooze. I made a new level 1 character myself and experienced something similar. The point on the variety of weapons is good as well. I'll take a look at those scripts.


Vindicator wrote:
The starting area in sithaniel is basically IMHO, a huge hot spot not just for new players, but anyone making an alt. The armor you get there is tailored to your class and size, plus the inmates are good. Lacking a specific weapon to buy sucks, but its a fair trade off for free everything else. I'd like to see more of that in the other areas.


Yeah, after reading your comment I looked at those scripts for making the proper-sized armor. It was impressive and worth emulating. Thanks for the pointer.

Galactus wrote:
If you include the introduction to the game (appropriate for nation) like the North, weapon shop like Kytar, Starting armor like Sith, quests like Kytar/Zhensh then you will have a great starting zone.


That's a good summary of the strengths--thank you.

GlenCannons wrote:
All newbie areas are not created equal, but they should be.

1. Sith'a'niel - the portal stones allow you to quickly move to the other areas that have the things that Sith'a'niel lacks.

4. Don't include a NPC or an interactive element that can cause frustration among true newbies. Interacting in the newbie area should be an experience that draws them into SK and doesn't discourage or annoy them. People have limited attention spans so in a game like this you need to hook them early.

5. Standardize everything and theme it around the kingdom they are in. Offer the same quality of weapons and armor at each zone. Offer the same types of trainers at each zone which all train to very good. Offer one immersive quest chain that gives the same amount of XP with tasks themed around the area that the player starts in.


Yeah, I like those portal stones in Sith. I wondered if they made things too easy, but your point is good. #4--I agree. Challenge is good; frustration is fatal. #5. I agree.


grep wrote:
3. Every good newbie area should be bypassed by veterans via executing some skill necessary to play the game. Opening a hidden door revealed in a room description, reading a sign and saying a code word, and so on are all authentic performance filters that do not require self-important narratives.
4. Whatever you do, be sure to include OOC links to the online help, FAQ, and world map pages alongside sincere warnings about participating in the forums.
5. A good addition to a newbie area would be a series of questions similar to the stat-based halls of creation capable of helping a character decide on an alignment. It would produce a suggested alignment based on how a character answers questions about her beliefs and theoretical responses to various situations. The most time-consuming newbie mistake is getting alignment wrong.


#3. Yep. I recently started out a new character in one area and was frustrated that I couldn't figure out how to leave without leveling up first. #4 Yes, I had the same impression. I think it would be good to notify players that the outside world exists. #5 In the works, as I understand it.


Sepka wrote:
I honestly haven't investigated those particular zones in a while, but I am curious how well they emphasize WHO, TELL, and MENTOR. I know that the command guide on the website does not mention those three at all, and they were the only way I got anywhere when I first started. A couple of people that I've recommended to the game talk about getting stuck somewhere and don't seem to realize they can contact other players to try and get unstuck.

edit: The /commands page does mention tell (under what to do when you die), my bad.


Yes, very good point. I found myself a bit frustrated with my recent new character that there wasn't a clearer pointer towards mentoring, especially.




Excellent comments. Thank you folks. Keep them coming. I'm listening and taking notes.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:53 pm 
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Let me follow up with a slightly different question...what do you know now that you wish you knew when you first started playing SK? Gameplay-wise.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Zavijah wrote:
Let me follow up with a slightly different question...what do you know now that you wish you knew when you first started playing SK? Gameplay-wise.


I have yet to find a single in-game explanation of item materials and their various properties. There is nothing in-game to suggest that tanso steel is naturally better than iron in terms of item durability. The existence of massive weapons is also an unfortunate secret to the uninitiated.

However, if builders were to implement anything fantastic in newbie zones, it would be a "refund" script in shops to get your purchase price back if done within a short timeframe. This would allow newbies to practice experimenting with different items and become a bit more savvy with the in-game economy; this is a behavior that will serve them well throughout their character's lifespan.

If we're going to talk about the hidden curriculum, it's clear that newbies don't read even the existing documentation. Designing newbie areas to reward active participation with more information might be the last, best hope for L2P. Teaching them to wait for pablum and pre-solved solutions with too much coddling in newbie areas retains the wrong segment of competitive roleplayers. In fact, along those lines, I think I'd say that most of us now know how to get back to life and deal with death easier than when we first started.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:16 am 
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Though you could argue it's covered under the general threat of the wilderness, more warning that just walking around on the road can be really, really dangerous would've saved me lots of trouble in the beginning.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:16 am 
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Location: Rolling in the Grave
SK Character: Gailehn, Stephanov
In regard to an interactive NPC or not/what's after the introductions:

Some newbies would prefer the interactive NPC. Some may not. Perhaps a general thing in each of these introductory areas is some mention that an 'instructor' is available, and you just have to call and ask for one. (And set up a command to do that, or make mention of it in the signs, or something).

I've seen it in some cases - but introductory areas need to be a bit direct when pointing out a suggestion or 3 where to go when done with the entry level area training grounds. Mentors are not always available to help the new new players, and you want to ensure they're lacking the information to carry on when they're 'forced out.'


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:54 pm 
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grep wrote:
I have yet to find a single in-game explanation of item materials and their various properties. There is nothing in-game to suggest that tanso steel is naturally better than iron in terms of item durability.


What is this, I don't even


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Location: My heart's in <strike>Iraq</strike> Texas with my newly re-enlisted 'som' 'soq' daughter
SK Character: Galida Apelila Shaloush Mayumi
When I first started playing this game a couple decades ago, I came from a hack-n-slash. I knew about the law code here so I would level up in the newbie ground then go sit in the inn, afraid to kill anything anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:33 am 
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This might've been mentioned already, but I think (glowing) stuff like the orbs in Tasl and rings in Krychire should be sold cheap in/very near every newb area.

edit: not necessarily with the same benefit as the glowing orbs from taslamar, just glowing


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:46 am 
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I've never personally liked being "forced" out of the newbie zone as soon as you hit novice rank.

I could imagine a brand new player being utterly confused when they are teleported to the kingdoms stones without barely a sentence to say why. They should at least be teleported to the inn like recalling else risk them getting lost and frustrated or worse.


I think newbie areas could be expanded a little also, to encompass novice and even partially initiate ranks. Not in the same area of course. A bit of RP with an NPC to send the newbie off on a quest to find their next leveling zone, along with advice and/or warnings about the area. Encouraging use of the inn for rest and meeting experienced characters. Ideally each kingdom would get its own area for novice/initiate, rather then everyone running off to the Outpost/Taslamar Sewers. Empire and Wastes spring to mind, not having anything nearby immediately for novices and pretty much relying on player info to know where to go next.

Then by initiate/apprentice the new player should hopefully have met a more experienced player to help them on their way.


Also along those lines, for true newbs it would be a good idea to advise them against starting out in the Wastes. Though the newbie area there is aesthetically one of my favourites, it is a nightmare for newbs. I remember when Kol's Moot was first opened, it took me AGES to learn the layout. Even finding my way up to the inn was a mission the first few times, and I wasn't a newbie at that stage. And Krychire has a few aggro NPCs that would not mix will with an exploring newbie.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Areas: What works and what doesn't?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Actually, the newbie zone thing is a great point. I think that Empire happens to do that best of the newbie zones I've found. You have that quarry and the jail place literally right next to you, and rather than force teleporting you out of the zone, it just keeps you from being able to return to the southern part or the stockade, and immediately you still have valid things to do/work on as a novice.


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