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Should there be a 30 minute delay after tribunal deposits before bounty hunters spawn?
Poll ended at Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:03 am
Yes 53%  53%  [ 18 ]
No 47%  47%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 34
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 Post subject: Re: Meta-Gaming the System
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:00 am 
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ninja_ardith wrote:
Being on both sides of the tribunal NPC farm I can say that this is a stupid idea.

You're farming the bounty NPCs while the opposing faction is offline.

On the other side when you log in and someone that has a hardon for you and went through the trouble of killing hundreds if not thousands of NPCs for the surprise attack is going to be bound and determined to do it again and again.

I only dropped 2 obsidian in the bank account when Surrit would offline farm NPCs.

Honestly, I think those of us that farm bounty NPCs could probably benefit from another hobby, like watching paint dry.


This!


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 Post subject: Re: Meta-Gaming the System
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
Declaring war with a faction doesn't mean that every single time you login to your character, you're interested in PKing them, nor does it give you license to say that they're cheating because they don't stay logged in every single time that you spawn a bounty NPC. People have lives outside of the game, and the game doesn't center around you.

Not every single person plays the game for the same reasons that you do. Some people don't have the same amount of time to dedicate to the game that you do, and while you may only spend a fraction of your time hunting them down when they're the only tribunal member logged on, you might be doing so during the majority of the time that the other person is logged on. Assuming that you know everything about what someone wants from the game OOC because their faction declared war with yours IC is quite the stretch. It seems like you lack the ability to view things from the viewpoint of others, which, coupled with the fact that you clearly dedicate more time to the game than others, is a bad combination.

Not everyone can dedicate the same amount of time to the game as you do (which is probably a good bit judging from the amount of activity you've had just in these forums), and it's selfish and rude to demand that code changes be implemented to almost exclusively benefit people like you who have more time to dedicate to the game, while actively punishing people that don't have that same amount of time to play. Be respectful of other players.


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 Post subject: Re: Meta-Gaming the System
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:08 am 
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I definitely understand now why Dulrik had to specifically ask you not to complain about necromancers. You get a notion in your head and you simply refuse to let it go. :wink: If they are not interested in PK, they can admit defeat and seek out a truce. Otherwise, a declaration of war is explicit consent to engage in PK.


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 Post subject: Re: Meta-Gaming the System
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:04 am 
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Edoras wrote:
I don't think that people who vote for your idea are inconsiderate of other players. I do think that your idea (having a 30 minute period in between depositing and having it matter) is poorly thought out. By itself it wouldn't fix your issue and it would also hurt players who log into an empty account even more than they already are, and I also think it's going too far to try and code an issue that can't be fully coded for, and will only serve to damage the game and waste coding time.

Clearly my recommendation that you give other players the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming that they're only depositing into the tribunal account to cheat offends you, so I'll leave it at that.


I have given other players the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I would have lodged a complaint with the Rules Manager which I have not and do not intend to do. You are drawing conclusions based on assumptions. I think it is clear based on the poll results that about the community is evenly divided on this issue. I am glad that you finally decided to argue the merits of the OP instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. Kudos for that. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Meta-Gaming the System
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:24 am 
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Gann wrote:
I am glad that you finally decided to argue the merits of the OP instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. Kudos for that. :wink:

My first post in this thread wrote:
That suggested change isn't reasonable nor does it solve your problem. Adding an arbitrary delay between depositing coin and having tribunal guards take effect will actively reward spam draining accounts when tribunal members are offline, because that means that when the tribunal players do login, they'll have a 30 minute window where they can be ambushed with complete impunity even in their own city.

It also won't solve your problem. Your problem is that people don't want to PK against you, so they log off. What you want to do is make it easier to PK them before they get the chance to log off, which is why you've proposed this change. That's going to drive them away from the game much faster than reporting them to the staff.


My last post in this thread wrote:
I do think that your idea (having a 30 minute period in between depositing and having it matter) is poorly thought out. By itself it wouldn't fix your issue and it would also hurt players who log into an empty account even more than they already are, and I also think it's going too far to try and code an issue that can't be fully coded for, and will only serve to damage the game and waste coding time.


My reasoning for why I think your idea is poorly thought out never changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Meta-Gaming the System
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:02 am 
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Gann wrote:
I definitely understand now why Dulrik had to specifically ask you not to complain about necromancers. You get a notion in your head and you simply refuse to let it go. :wink: If they are not interested in PK, they can admit defeat and seek out a truce. Otherwise, a declaration of war is explicit consent to engage in PK.


+1 - in bold, above. - Torbellino, ~ March 2014. Was interested in PK, just not the slaughter fest that happened at the time. Stuck with it pretty long. Ultimately, admitted defeat and tried to just stay IC through that process, and make some RP with it. -
However, the way the game was/remains set up, that admission was bad for BOTH sides of the conflict. The losing side did deal with breaking off alliances and 0 coffers. The 'winning' side had a lot of characters retire soon after out of 'boredom,' instead of there being further interaction/RP, which could have sparked the next thing down the road. The plan was to take a couple months to rebuild and then reengage, with fresh members and leadership, likely on both sides.

A year later, March 2015. Again with the Guardians and the East. Sheer force of will to get the 'losing' side of that war effort to show up for the sake of the GRP and do something/anything that made sense, far as the PVP goes. Outcome improved - Ayamao still took a beat stick, due to some poor tactics. Again the war ends, with the 'victorious' easterners still taking some major hits. Haven't seen much further interaction.

In the near 3 years I've been at this gig, seems like when both sides have interested people to fight, and each side has at least one among them who can lead tactically, win or lose, it can be enjoyable, and the RP is there to support it. Imbalance seems to breed more negative OOC feedback, and it's funny to see it mostly coming from the 'winning' end of given conflict. And more funny, when that 'winning' side disappears in the game as much as the losing side. Something that did not actually change when staff tried to make a GRP with attainable goals/points and flexible outcome (There was a win and a lose scenario, but flexibility within depending on what actually happened.) I would have loved to see additional RP born out of the end of that conflict.

Anyway - on topic - bounty guards/coffers - it does make sense it'd take a day to deal with the bureaucracy of money being deposited, to guards being properly hired, and prepared to fight. Maybe an in-game day would make sense for that.

On the other topic of characters not engaging in PK when there's clearly enemy action in your cabal/kingdom - if there's RP behind it and it's established and consistent, it's one thing. If a player is picking/choosing fights and logging out to avoid combat, but returning later and goes out of their way to gank people 'in retribution,' then it's not so much a matter of them not wanting to PK (in general) but more of a meta-gaming thing/frowned upon behavior. And then there's those people who have RL interfering with their timing of the anything, that's less than ideal but - if there's some actual follow up later to engage in that PK opportunity, that'd make some degree of sense. A leader of a group could be made aware of a member's lack of patriotism. The leader can probably make the call if there's established reason/RP behind shirking from PK. If it's a leader doing this, check with the other leader to verify if it's reasonable (do to RP) or not. If it's a single leader, it should be reportable, at least to figure out 1) why, and 2) to get a (2nd) leader in the group to lead in the PK if the current one is not confident/willing/desiring/able. The game suffers when a group and its members aren't held accountable in this fashion. On the flip side, players should never assume out of the game that you can speak with authority on someone else's behavior or act as a policing unit in game, especially if your character hasn't done due diligence in game, RPwise. The OOC policing that goes on is frustrating both for the person doing it, and the person receiving it.


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