Shattered Kingdoms

Let's assume this scenario because it isn't an uncommon one. Taslamar vs North.

1) Does this mean that if you are a lightie leader, you can't ever call a truce with the North?

2) Does this mean if you a lightie non-leader that you are no obligation to hold a truce with the North?


If I am reading too much into it, can we have a bit more explanation?

A truce is a ceasefire, which may be suitable for any number of reasons.

I am positive that you can understand the difference between that and an alliance and the difference between both of those scenarios and a darkie or lightie in a gray faction inappropriately interacting with someone of the opposite aura due to diplomatic relations.

Do factions have alignments now? Officially?

Some clarity could still be attained. For example, the true, clueless newbie could easily be mislead to believe that an aberrant character could do perfectly well in Aludra with the current documentation. This "gray faction" business confirms that there are undocumented expectations in-game.

Nothing about Aludra and aberrant mix.

There are, however, factions with agendas that are clear and others that may vary based on leadership and other political landscape issues. There is no gray area.

Until that is self-evident in the help files, it remains true that you are holding players -- including well-intentioned newbies -- to an objective moral standard that is less often the default roleplaying standard than otherwise in these post-modern times.



This sentence is written with syntactic ambiguity and a comma splice that hardly helps the situation. To say aberrant doesn't mix is to interpret the above sentence in a specific way. To make matters worse:



Where does it say what these three divisions are? We all have the advantage of playing the game and knowing what is going on; how do you know Marfik, for example, is a "gray" immortal, and how do you know what that even means?

But that's not all. Where is a help file explaining aura at all? Here's the closest thing we've got:



Want another problem? Here, take a look at this:



Where does a well-intended player using fmud from a Facebook link for the first time get any impression that the Ayamaoan Alliance is a "gray faction" from this?


I don't disagree with your sentiments, but the pantheon is creating a landscape where people are getting punished for trying, exploring, or doing things that aren't fairly dissuaded. It's easy to think something is obvious after lots of experience with it.

If there is no gray area, shouldn't we be able to give these help files to any newbie and expect them to be able to fairly act as an immortal? Do you really believe that is currently possible?

You're opening yourself up to allegations of harboring and defending a cookie-cutter elitism by having so many hard-and-fast statements supported by such mushy and subjective documentation.

Tribunals don't have agendas past upholding order and "protecting" citizens, but they are bound by the dictates of the absolutely ABUNDANT resources on terms of the expected norm of their kingdom and city. There are new helpfiles that outline these, plus the NPCs, room descriptions and stories that paint that picture quite clearly.

For instance, darkie characters are allowed in the tribunals of kingdoms where they are more or less tolerated; there is only one place where admittance should be outright denied. Lighties are more limited.

Aludra's helpfile could stand to be reworked, but no HF of the faith and no IMM is going to invest an aberrant character. They will, instead, explain IC why the two don't mix. This happened with a recent character of your own re: Zavijah. Were you punished? Only in that you refused to take a new angle and rerolled. Your choice.

Look, the fact that these poorly-written help files all seem so obvious and straightforward to you may be either the result of your immortality or, perhaps, the cause of it.

I deleted a paragraph here because I want to try to remain civil.

For example, where does it ever say tribunal members are obligated to PVP? It's a soft requirement that has never made it to full documentation, but I'm sure people have been warned or punished for it just the same. That should be in a help file.

On the Aludra topic, the fact that no HF nor IMM will invest someone who could be lead, otherwise, to seek the immortal means there's probably room for improvement with the help file.

On a personal topic, yes, I found that out with Zavvy too. Did I whine? No. I also did not refuse to take a new angle. That character found an immortal and got invested. I learned to expect this after enduring a certain player roleplaying her expectations of the Aludra faith. I don't appreciate the way you and Viltrax have freely flung around character information that I try to keep discrete, by the way. Unless my e-mail address is a matter of public knowledge... I guess immortals can talk about whatever they want when it comes to winning an argument. Another soft rule for the helpfiles. Yes, that's bitter. Yes, I have a right to be. Yes, I am moving on. No, it isn't intended as a flame. I'm sure your point wasn't, either.

I deleted a paragraph here with some private communication information in it.

My main argument in all of this isn't to change what's going on. My main point is that from a recruitment and retention standpoint, it might be a good idea to give people the facts and expectations required to enjoyably and productively play the game on their first roll. A ton of the help files could really stand to be reworked. The enforced reality has departed from the interprettable one.

Maybe I just have a skewed perspective. Maybe a thread about roleplaying rewards, a counterpart to the punishment one, would give us that overwhelming evidence that most people know how to do this and give us examples to emulate instead of just negative counterexamples?

I don't know. I'm just making points in the name of a kinder, gentler, more accessible game world.

Reading that, it seems that the staff realize that there are ambiguities and are already working to fix these. Revising helpfiles is something that I have done quite a bit of in my tenure as an IMM, and there are plenty left to go. We're volunteers, and I have lots of things that I have to write for pay or for schoolwork that trump "help Aludra," particularly when I know that I can depend on the HFs of that faith to dissuade characters from going down that road.

However, players that are punished are not newbies that didn't know better. Those players are given guidance and sent along their way unscathed. The ones that -do- understand how it's supposed to be but still specifically seek to exploit the gray areas and/or completely disregard the obvious restrictions on their characters are the ones that find themselves cursed.

We are working toward a clear-cut standard, but it takes more time to argue that the expectations are somehow invalid than it does to simply offer a reasonable edit suggestion. You're not doing that, either; you're throwing gasoline on embers. The fact that you feel singled out is abundantly clear, but that's probably due to the fact that you gleefully rode those gray areas in the past, and now you can't. I do apologize for bringing up a character that you had not outed; I figured that the fact that it had been deleted due to inactivity after a fairly short life was enough of a buffer, but you are correct. I should not have.

These discussions could be much more productive, but I'm getting the sense that this is how you prefer them.

Thanks. It happens, but... I sincerely thought it was intentionally being whipped out as some kind of trump card. Bygones are bygones. No great harm done.

As for the situation at hand, well. Ugh. I mean, no offense, but ... if you know your car isn't getting you around properly, and might be dangerous, and you're fixing it, do you drive it? Enforcing systems you acknowledge as problematic while you're fixing them just doesn't seem very kind to anyone, especially you guys. Ever played Paranoia? That's what RP enforcement feels like right now. I feel like a commie mutant traitor.

I made a thread with some help file suggestions. You offered input. I thought we were making something beautiful together. Honestly. It made me feel productive and not as clueless as threads like this do. A few players seemed to take issue with that, though. Are you saying they should HTFU?

Let me make this clear, the reason I'm posting and feel bad is because I don't feel singled out. The immortals I've dealt with in-game have been great, entertaining, and even cordial. But there are questions and complaints flooding in and the immortals are acknowledging these problems. Working through something obligates a great deal of communication, and its happening. That should be a good thing we all nobly slog through with good intentions. Please don't pigeonhole my feedback into whining. That's just... I mean, that's rude. Stop that. I don't have a grudge. I don't think you have a vendetta. Give me some benefit of the doubt, too? ... Please?

As for the volunteer point, that does kind of get on my nerves. If free time is such a problem, maybe make it easier for people to contribute their own? That touches drama bigger than both of us put together, though. Let's table that and just agree that the situation is less than fortunate.

As for discussions, I prefer mine in a hot tub. We'll just make due with what we've got.

I'll go for this as the main takeaway: in the same style as the RP punishment thread, why not make an RP reward thread? A brief vague description of why the RP was good, that's it. A celebration. An inspiration.

Grep is a muck raker who is always lawyering up in an effort to get away with his/her desired interpretation instead of playing along with the actual SK universe. I don't know why you bother. None of this stuff is hard. Obviously you don't get to go Aludra as aberrant simply because it isn't explicitly said in her helpfile that you cannot play evil in Aludra. Asking questions like that as a veteran player is just blatant trolling and in a universe this rich it'd be silly to expect every little thing to be spelled out. Grep just wants to make you draw lines in the sand so that he/she has something easier to attack.