Shattered Kingdoms

If you think mercenaries need to be severely wimped as far as their group leadership capabilities go, make this change.

If you think their abilities are balanced, don't make the change.

As it stands now - retreat puts an important element of skill into rift combat and city combat. Removing it would remove an important piece of the skill in SK from pk.

However, if you think mercenaries are so imbalanced as to merit removing retreat (they are quite overpowered as it stands) - then go ahead.

I like the idea of dragging, but I'm not sure if it *really* works. Here's why I think it works, and why it doesn't.

Why it doesn't:
I really can't see why most greybies/darkies would consider dragging there friend out from death. While this isn't applicable to all greybies/darkies (and lighties can also be this way), it just doesn't make sense to see a selfish person risk their life more by dragging one of their friends out. There are even certain faiths that could easily justify leaving one of their friends to die.

Why it does work:
If it was implemented, this is how I'd make it happen. For starters, the body weight (note: not body+armor+items) of the person should be calculated. (Afterall, you're dragging them, not carrying them. ). Add up the total free strength of all non-prone people of the party, and if the combined free strength is greater than the weight of the prone people, all members of the party get carried out. (Yes, I realize there are situations which not all the prone party members should be pulled out, but these will be too few to take the time and effort to consider those situations). If the total free strength of the non-prone party members is less than the body weight of all the prone members, then only the most healthy people are pulled out. Let's see an example...

There are six party members: sleeper, Gilgon, Threnody, Travorn, Snuffles, and DA. Lets say DA and Travorn are giants, Gilgon and myself are humans, Snuffles is a sprite, and Threnody is a dwarf. Let's say I'm the only one with retreat.
Situation 1:
I order a retreat, and Snuffles and Gilgon are bashed. DA, myself, and Gilgon have enoughs strength to pull everyone out, so everyone comes out.
Situation 2:
I order a retreat, and Travorn and DA are bashed. Since the strength of Gilgon, myself, Snuffles and Threnody is only enough to pull one out, DA gets pulled out because he has more health. (Sorry Travorn. )
Situation 3:
I order a retreat, and Snuffles and myself are the only non-prone people. Since we''re both puny, no one gets pulled out.

With this in mind, I think dragging people out makes sense. First, there's no way in the world two sprites could pull out a giant. Secondly, in a fight, and more importantly a retreat, you're organized. A few people take up the front, while the people in the back would help carry out semi-healthy people.

I like the dragging idea for two reasons. For starters, not having a "dragging" ability would severely reduce the amount of group PK that exists. While I like solo PK, I'd hate to see group PK be completely diminished. Secondly, this might also decrease the amount of exploration that happens, because no tank is going to want to get bashed and then subsequently left behind to get shredded by some uber NPC.

sleeper

PS I just realized that, in the way I thought dragging should work, I didn't factor in animals. Upon thinking about it, I'm not sure what's the best way to handle them...

I voted for pure balance reasons, let them usher prone people out with them.

Same.

Edit: I'll leave the decision up to currently active players.

You better believe that my aberrant character isn't about to leave his allies behind.

Retreat is an absolutely sick skill. It allows ranged combat with impunity and absolutely no counter to it unless the opposing group is also prepared to do ranged.

I think you should leave the prone people behind.

At best, make a compromise. 50/50 chance that you'll take them with you or leave them.

Lets be realistic here. If someone is lieing on the ground getting beaten with maces, swords, flails, acid, whatev and the merc gets in close enough to grab this guy to have him retreat, then the merc should suffer a lag after the retreat, or take damage from trying to grab his friend.

This is a fun debate. I can see both sides.

Meh...Hard question here. I see both sides. Personally, I thought retreat was always a bit overpowered. You could retreat, have your group prep holy word, walk in, rinse n repeat etc. Bashed, trip, you could save your friends. I'm sorry, but if someone is sent sprawling through the air, then being pummeled by multiple people, they're not gonna just waltz out of the room the moment a retreat is called. They'll have to fight their way back to their feet first, then follow the retreat.

...After analyzing it, I'd be in favor of a strength requirement and size restrictions but this makes me wonder if anyone would play a dwarf merc or so. I can't really see a dwarf dragging a Centaur or giant off the battlefield, no matter how stout they are. But then again, this is a fantasy world where dorfs can lift 2980489048290 lbs..So..Strength requirement is fine. Just par the strength needed vs the size of the saved one. Medium 100 lbs (weight of a corpse) Large 150 lbs? Giant 175-200 lbs. Basically the size their naked corpse would weigh should be what determines the limit imo.