Shattered Kingdoms

First off, I want to say that it isn't Lathron's fault that other melee characters don't know how to play their characters well. A buffed, equipped charmee IS strong against unprepared PCs, but a prepped PC can easily stand toe to toe with a charm and come out on top: I find it strange that Syn, even though she started this thread, was able to beat Lathron in a 1v1 when Lathron, being the GM barb (read:anti-swash class) was as prepped as possible and she didn't even have GS/Haste or use any healing vials. That said, onto my main points.

Charm Person is both powerful and volatile. In certain situations it's incredibly powerful, and in others it can even be detrimental. Lathron could stand to have his auto sanc/haste flags removed, but that won't change a lot about charm person as a whole. Against a prepped, smart opponent or in a group battle, there are ways to either completely nullify charm person or even turn the charmee against its wielder. It's a finesse skill, as are most sorcerer abilities.

I don't think that nerfing Charm Person concerning NPCs is a good way to nerf sorcs. On one hand, if you limit the number of charmees down to one, you've removed all reason for anyone to play a deep-elf sorcerer. If you nerf charms, you really hurt sorc survivability (That charm is usually the only thing standing in the way of a sorc getting ravaged by a warrior with a reaching weapon). If you lower the success rate you change nothing practical in the realm of PvP, unless you're talking about charming PCs.

To say that a Charmed NPC is just as good, or even close to a PC is off base. Charmed NPCs can't quaff heal, buff themselves, keep an opponent reliably bashed, save against spells, re-equip themselves if they get disarmed, or do ANYTHING (unless you're lucky) besides sit and hit things without causing the sorc to give themselves order lag, and as soon as a charmee goes down, that sorc usually has to run for the hills because two rounds of damage from a PC that's doing normal PC damage can easily kill them even if they have MI up.

I also find it funny that now that Ardith has deleted his sorc and is playing an elven paladin, it's suddenly become so clear to him that sorcs need more nerfing and magical devices that give hellfire to people other than hellions shouldn't exist.

I'm the best though. I think to 'win' I had to go mood defensive, and the fight literally took like 2 ticks? Do we even need to cover what the hell the sorc could do in 2 ticks?



They have this awesome benefit. They can die without the sorc giving a damn. As soon as a PC warrior hits like..70% hp, you have to either start quaffing, or just flee, since in the span of one 'bash' you can die.

Bet if Lathronw as using claws or punching you'da lost.

Or a bandalore. Yeah.

I figured that was obvious.

That's like whining because you rolled an elf paladin and got rocked by hellfire. Some classes are predisposed to winning against other classes, and sorcerer beats swashie in a 1v1, especially a tribunal swashie fighting in enemy territory without buffs. Part of the "problem" with charmies is that people don't deal with them properly. Also, the only reason that the fight lasted that long is because I was forced to give Lathron a shield and put him on defensive to keep him from dying, which nukes his damage and bashing capability pretty heavily as you noticed.


Punching doesn't work that well against swashies either, unless they're weak to blunt damage or the barb is a Hammer. Putting a charmed NPC against a moo neutral buffed swashie or any other melee class with anything other than a shield in mood defensive is going to give you one dead charm.

In general, there are two kinds of NPCs - those that are supposed to be following the same rules as PCs (and are hence charmable) and those that are considered sort of "boss-class" material, and are therefore allowed to break PC boundaries but are also not charmable.

For Lathron and some other NPCs, it sounds like the act of charming them needs to make them lose certain permanent flags, like sanctuary. But I'm not sure if that alone is enough to fix the problem?

That would be a good thing, if they lost their permanent flags when charmed.

The comparison on hellfire versus an elf paladin and a bandalore wielding barb being comparable is laughable. Hellfire does not hurt an elf paladin. I had a duel not too long ago with a high level hellion and his hellfire did all of 4% to my elf paladin. That's far different than having a bandalore, which completely shuts down the swashbuckler class.

Punching works well enough against swashbuckler. Paddah drop kicked Veret with wild fighting.

I also don't see any reason why a swashbuckler would pick mood neutral.

You're clueless. You're just not feeling my hate for the necromancer class yet because I haven't posted anything about it, and this was more readily available. I also primarily levied my complaint against bolt of glory. I just tacked hellfire on there because it is under the same umbrella.

Hey, peso, remember when Paddah and Joseph walked into the no-magic room, and Lathron bashed and ganked you?