Shattered Kingdoms

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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:00 pm 
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Opey wrote:
Actually, Finney's solutions sound pretty good to me. I'm not sure I am entirely on board with removing leadership, especially if you are going to apply a template across the board on all tribunals. If everyone has their legionnaire captain equivalent, that seems fine.



Yeah, my suggestions are an either/or option. No reason to do both.


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:51 pm 
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I think what you guys might not be considering is that coding major changes for a MuD takes a lot of time and effort and, let's face it, there's more lucrative things to spend your time in rather than making tweaks on something that won't overall make a huge difference either way.

Personally I'm surprised and grateful for the amount and level of changes that are still being made to this free game.

If these issues could be addressed with a few minor tweaks I'm sure the coders would be easier to convince, should you make such a suggestion.

My 2 cents.


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:32 pm 
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SK Character: The Shining One
This is not a coding issue; it's a building issue. The collective KDs can level the playing field when a model is set, but it's still a big undertaking and one that would require substantial time to implement. It would require all general NPCs, enforcer armor suits and plus-plus-leet leadership NPCs to be tweaked/enhanced/nerfed/removed everywhere from main cities to the missions. There are other glaring disparities in the tribunal NPC department that also need to be fixed, as well. I'm for either solution, really, but taking away leadership seems to be the MUCH EASIER option.


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Why not just dump the lame stupid Tribunals all together and let Cabal return to the glory of protecting Kingdoms.


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Meissa wrote:
I'm for either solution, really, but taking away leadership seems to be the MUCH EASIER option.


I agree that it is not only the easier, but the better solution too. However, I think a lot of players have become hopelessly inured to NPC wars and tribunal guards (really, they are just a glorified pet in practice). I expected a lot more resistance to the idea, so color me surprised.

Valkyrion wrote:
Why not just dump the lame stupid Tribunals all together and let Cabal return to the glory of protecting Kingdoms.


With dual faction membership, there is really no reason to get rid of tribunals. In fact, I like that you can join the Hammer and not be tied to the Peacekeepers, join the Fist and not be tied to the Talons or join the Crucible and not be tied to the Hand. I think options like Hammer/Guardian, Fist/Peacekeeper, etc. are interesting and shakes things up a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:32 pm 
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SK Character: Karsh
I've been quietly pushing for years that tribs and trib NPCs be built to a formulaic template. Last I heard there was some kind of top-level resistance to the idea. Not sure if it was from an implementer-level, or just from builders/kds who couldn't be assed to put the work in to adjust the NPCs to a template, but either way there was resistance to the idea.

Frankly, all guard NPCs should be Dogmatic, and every trib should have access to the exact same guard NPC setup. I think the guard NPCs add an element of complexity to pvp that's warranted, but the "arms war" that's gone on between builders and KDs over the years has created significant imbalance. Templates are the best way to go, but they will require more work and so probably won't be the adopted solution.


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:02 pm 
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I don't think there is an ongoing arms war. Hand and guardians won that race a while ago. Suggestions have been made to promote balance, but no changes have taken place for the sake of flavor and diversity, which is understandable, but in the end there are certain classes that work mechanically, and others that don't.

Mercs/barbs > hellions/paladins > casters. Hand/guardians > Peacekeepers/Legion > Talons


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:56 pm 
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i think in an ideal SK, it would be fantastic to have flavor; elven elite paladins, the trio, cowled guards, griffon, giant legionnaire and so on, these would make each kingdom unique, as the NPCs would perform different roles

unfortunately my understanding is that the kingdom directors are immortal staff, that come and go as the time pass, and after the cabals have been standardised, 'flavor' in SK in general has been diminished greatly

i miss the days of Hammer culture, MC culture, etc, that seems to be hard to find now, currently the cabals in SK are groups with different skillsets - this would be an interesting topic for a different day


moving forward, the process may be simplified, it is not necessary to perform a complete revamp of the NPCs because they can no longer be ordered to cast

it wouldn't take long to class barb, merc, and swashbuckler NPCs into each kingdom, to an appropriate level, and have descriptions to go with them - short and long descriptions can even come from the current tribunal leaders

and if any of the NPCs aren't caught in the net, they can be adjusted by the same process sorc and necro charms have been culled over the years

over time, however, it would be appreciated if priest and sorc NPCs of equivalent level in every kingdom can join the fray, no matter how their artificial intelligence go


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:26 am 
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ObjectivistActivist wrote:
I've been quietly pushing for years that tribs and trib NPCs be built to a formulaic template. Last I heard there was some kind of top-level resistance to the idea. Not sure if it was from an implementer-level, or just from builders/kds who couldn't be assed to put the work in to adjust the NPCs to a template, but either way there was resistance to the idea.

Frankly, all guard NPCs should be Dogmatic, and every trib should have access to the exact same guard NPC setup. I think the guard NPCs add an element of complexity to pvp that's warranted, but the "arms war" that's gone on between builders and KDs over the years has created significant imbalance. Templates are the best way to go, but they will require more work and so probably won't be the adopted solution.



It's true this would level the playing field, but it would also level the RP background and flavor of realism that SK provides. Why would any two armies of different countries be the same, especially in a fantasy setting?

If you want to go that route I could suggest that you allow tribunals to only order certain NPCs that have similar levels/class/abilities, but changing the guards of all cities to the same formula and making them all dogmatic doesn't make any sense to me.

Again this is a solution that is less than simple and requires a lot of building/coding to implement. In my opinion, it's simpler and more enjoyable to everyone to simply -add- more stuff to the game rather than remove/change. Build a couple of new NPC's for the weaker tribunals, that are thematically appropriate to their kingdom. Things might not be in perfect balance but who cares? This isn't call of duty


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 Post subject: Re: ordering tribunal guards to cast used to be cool
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Galthryn wrote:
This isn't call of duty


Maybe for you it isn't.

But seriously, a template for mechanical abilities makes sense. It's what classes are all about, isn't it?

Take one high-hp swashbuckler-merc hybrid and call him "M. Manlius Capitolinus" in the Legion and "Enjokosai Dekimasu" in the Talon, for example.

Letting RP and builder fluff differentiate instances of the same consistent, balanced mechanics makes plenty of sense to me.


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