Shattered Kingdoms

3rd row = immune to melee? Define immune someone?

Presumably anyone can sit in the third row. That doesn't make you invulnerable, that just means your opponent needs a bow, or even better, a rogue. As for "quaffing word", yes that's an excellent tactic, because running away is just the best way of winning, ever.
I could probably zap a wand of stone skin evey two seconds though, I'm pretty sure that would keep my char alive long enough to be entertaining.

Thats funny, I was thinking the same thing about someone who claims Citadel scrolls are as easy to get as a suit of Addy armor.

Either explain why that is or just don't even say it. Comments like that don't contribute anything to the discussion.

Classes that can be 3rd row (solo) without being in a Cabal/Tribunal.

Sorc/Necro

Warlock can do it with an item that recently was changed to pop after usage, so claiming they can be 3rd row 24/7 is bonus.

Priests can do it with a magical item, but I'm fairly certain its limited so I wouldn't claim that they can 'easily' be 3rd row either.

Sure, other classes can do it with charm/animate scrolls/wands, but again thats not a 24/7 thing.

Did I miss any? If so please share with the class.

EDIT:

I'm done with this conversation. Clearly nothing is going to be changed so there is no point in continuing it.

Actually, since some [REDACTED] IMM put those bond servants in, anyone can be third row. Tribunal or not.

I'll take random numbers post as he agrees making yourself safe against melee as easy and possible but still not effective because you don't have the opportunity to kill the person who jumped you? Ignoring the part about rogues/scouts because that was blatantly already addressed many many times.

Why should I explain [REDACTED] to you, your the one coming into a discussion about a topic you know nothing about, half this thread has been me explaining how to avoid dieing to melee, pretty much the most basic part of Sk. How about your learn how sk works and then maybe your two cents will be worth something. I mean if you think you need to go to the iron citadel to get good scrolls than your making life a lot more difficult than it has to be. Half the good eq in the game is a complete joke to get, on random npcs in random places 40 rooms from cities like teron. Like i've said before, in the past and even now, a single well equiped caster is easily 10x as devastating as any lone warrior could ever be. But you are right about the fact that if you get someone else to spend 20 hours of their time you can make yourself immune to them.

This thread, especially random_numbers + lakir, are positively deep-elfning in newbie water.

Try reading it as in "there's no good way to protect yourself against melee" and maybe you'll get it. Hit a caster and he won't survive unless he words out. If we're talking about a sorc, he'll usually be behind a pet and a charm. Well great. Kill the pet (that won't take long) then you've got easy access to the sorc. Most warriors carry healing potions to help against that pesky little charm stabbing here and there.
But who knows, maybe pets are actually very hard to kill with a well-enchanted battlespear, and the caster might actually get lucky and get charm spell off on whoever is attacking, only, damn, well enchanted armor that takes care of your magic (unless you're a giant getting charmed ).

Edit: Yes Gilgon, but we're bound to get more sensible people arguing sooner or later if we continue this long enough

You do realize that dirt/blindness/color spray keeps them from targeting you...

This argument isn't about ways to avoid magic damage or spell damage, its whether melee damage is outstripping caster damage. From what I've seen, yes.

It's hard to say if melee damage is out stripping caster damage. Id say yes with basic spells like acid blast, and magma spray, a warrior can out damage a warlock against enemies with enchantments. Most casters I think are more likely to stick to spells like color spray, that hit the entire enemy group for some damage and have other affects, or try to straight out kill you with fod or petrify scrolls. A sorc with a giant charm who spams acid blast can easily out damage any warrior plain and simple. The real thing to think about isn't if melee damage and magic damage line up, because I doubt they ever well. It's if they are balanced based on the whole list of extra things you can do with spells, and if those spells are hitting at the right rate. With probably 3/4 of the players in the game likely to die to a petrify cast at them, or take 80% from an Fod, I can't see how magic spells need a boost.

Rial, I'll ask you a question. You say you can avoid melee if you stay in third row. If by avoid you mean word out if trouble appears, you are right. Then again, you can stay in 2nd/3rd row as a warrior and word out at the first sign of trouble anyway, even if you see a sorc appearing in the room or starting to concentrate on that insta kill spell.

If I put a warrior with 60 MP 30 fort 30 will in full AC 10 adam and a sorc with 60 MP 30 will 30 fort in full AC 10 energy, give the warrior just his weapon and give the sorc a charmie, a pet and a weapon for the charmie, let them get buffs(protection, sanc, shield, armor, gstr, haste, whatever) and fight, who will win if they fight to the death?

Do you think a charmie can outmelee a warrior in such a suit? I seriously doubt it. Do you think the caster can do any real harm to the warrior in that suit? Again, I doubt it. I'll tell you what will happen. The warrior will kill the charmie slowly, then kill the pet fast and then proceed in killing the sorc even faster than the pet.

If both are naked with only a weapon, the caster has the advantage of course. But then again, that's a cripple fight of [REDACTED].

Don't you agree that if such a suit's enchantments offer you complete immunity to all spell damage they should also offer you a higher protection from melee damage(especially MP on armor pieces)?

And if 3/4 of the players die to a petrify or take 80% from a FoD, I expect to see a lot of those cripple fights.

Yes, we all can agree that a warrior with insane eq will beat a caster with insane eq.

We can also all agree that casters are harder to pk than warriors, especially due to having etherealform access at all times.

We can also agree that casters can kill 90% of the mud instantly, and warriors do not have that capability.

Cool!