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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Balantine wrote:
Gilgon wrote:
Balantine wrote:
I'll take umbrage with that: Necromancers are not imba considering that 45min+ of work raising/buying 3 obsidian worth of weapons, can be wiped out with one 4-second spell. Or 1 ambush, 1 backstab, 1 charge, 1 ethereal sorc following and dispelling, etc.

Let's give light-aura the outfit command back at level 50, with equivalent gear and weapons. Oh wait, that's already basically in play here.


Necromancers are imba if you aren't a newbie. 10-15 minutes of 'work' to get fully set to pk, meaning 20+ wraiths.


Impossible.

You're not factoring in the time to buy weapons or spell the wraiths. Or, hell, the time it takes to kill/animate with area repop in question, really. And you'd have to have a really nice mana pool or have the bodies embalmed or have a Mira priest anyway. 20+ is an exaggeration.

If the eq repopped on area repops you'd still have to wait. This wouldn't "effectively eliminate the extremely tedious waiting."

How is waltzing into a City and killing/enchanting no-risk? Especially if banished/outlawed already. That has similar if slightly less risk than other adamantite-rich locations. Not every player is a power-player and has the time or inclination to wait until no tribunal members or potential enemies are logged off.

There is (nearly) a safe and effective counter to every tactic in this game. Just because you're playing a class that can't take advantage of stopping a certain other class doesn't mean that they are imbalanced.


I already played a necromancer in order to demonstrate how outrageously imbalanced they are. Read a log on the [REDACTED] forums for details. Each time I went to PK I did so with 10-15 minutes of work -> including buying weapons and buffing wraiths. C 'rift' vebjorn, buy 20 hunting spear, wear one of my 10 buyable haste wands I keep on me, zap on each wraith (30 seconds of work), then go out and pk.

Really. Not sure who you are, because you use a new forum id...but I specifically played a necromancer to demonstrate how stupid they are. I proved my point :P.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:46 pm 
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That you're no better than Dark Avenger.

Congratulations.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
Gilgon's necro sucked.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Edoras wrote:
Gilgon's necro sucked.


Sure, but that sucking included walking through lighty cities NON STOP and killing anyone there with ease, including law NPCs. I spam broke cabal hqs because people would hide from me in the only safe place (their hqs), and nobody online even really tried to pk me after a week or so of playing. They just ran from the stupid imbalance that our coder approves of.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:21 pm 
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Gilgon wrote:
Balantine wrote:
Gilgon wrote:
Balantine wrote:
I'll take umbrage with that: Necromancers are not imba considering that 45min+ of work raising/buying 3 obsidian worth of weapons, can be wiped out with one 4-second spell. Or 1 ambush, 1 backstab, 1 charge, 1 ethereal sorc following and dispelling, etc.

Let's give light-aura the outfit command back at level 50, with equivalent gear and weapons. Oh wait, that's already basically in play here.


Necromancers are imba if you aren't a newbie. 10-15 minutes of 'work' to get fully set to pk, meaning 20+ wraiths.


Impossible.

You're not factoring in the time to buy weapons or spell the wraiths. Or, hell, the time it takes to kill/animate with area repop in question, really. And you'd have to have a really nice mana pool or have the bodies embalmed or have a Mira priest anyway. 20+ is an exaggeration.


I already played a necromancer in order to demonstrate how outrageously imbalanced they are. Read a log on the [REDACTED] forums for details. Each time I went to PK I did so with 10-15 minutes of work -> including buying weapons and buffing wraiths. C 'rift' vebjorn, buy 20 hunting spear, wear one of my 10 buyable haste wands I keep on me, zap on each wraith (30 seconds of work), then go out and pk.

Really. Not sure who you are, because you use a new forum id...but I specifically played a necromancer to demonstrate how stupid they are. I proved my point :P.


I call BS. To my knowledge hunting spears are not spam-buyable at medium-size anymore. Meaning that you have to sit there waiting and ask for them somewhere else. That takes 10 minutes alone for 24 wraiths. And without energizing. Realistically, every other ME regen tick is missed until you have 6 wraiths or you're ethereal (Another 5 platinum!) because of fighting/ordering to prevent flamestrike wakeup after having your animates break GM sanctuary. The area we're talking about (duh) doesn't repop fast enough for you to get more than ~10 wraiths every 20 minutes. Unless those NPCs on the east side are GM too...which might mean 15 wraiths in 20 minutes.

Saying that you get lucky and get an area repop in the middle or toward the end of a raise, it still takes you approximately 30 minutes to raise (You are doing this by yourself right? Not with someone else. The few times I saw you raising you had help from Bain or someone else like a control, which slows down your ME regen).

5 minutes to have another PC spell your wraiths, a minute or two with haste wands. Do you factor in the time to go and buy the wands without PC assistance?

Leaving you with what, 3 obsidian worth of spears (24), 5 platinum for the wands (2). And 35-45 minutes.

You COULD do what you're saying in 15 minutes but only by spending at least another obsidian on energizers, having help from another PC, and if you didn't raise a full army and if you had already bought the spears and wands ahead of time, which wouldn't make it really 15 minutes would it, or if you have another place to buy spears. And 5-6 obsidian down the hole in a 4 second holy word cast. Nice!

Post a raise with a time log in your prompt and I'll maybe believe you. And by the by, it is now effectively impossible as well to kill an outer Guardian of a HQ with wraiths.

-Numb3rs killah.


Last edited by Balantine on Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:15 pm 
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You can still buy hunting spears. I'm not sure what size they come in, but I don't think it's very far from medium if it isn't medium.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:55 pm 
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How many of those people that you spam-killed were actually good, Gilgon? Obviously anyone can waltz through a city with 20 undead and kill noobs, but anyone with half a brain and the right class can screw up a necro that does that.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:50 pm 
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Balantine wrote:
-Numb3rs killah.


Who are you that you remember Bain helping Gilgon's necro with corpses?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:41 am 
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I could get a full army in 10-15 minutes. Without any energizers. Really.

I factor in the time it takes me to buy haste wands - 0 seconds, because I kept many on me at all times. That means it became a 30 second process to buff my wraiths whenever I wanted to.

I factor in the time it took me to buy hunting spears - 35 seconds, because I would keep 30 spears sitting in a given location that I would put there at the beginning of a reboot (which take place few and far between). That way, I could spend 3 minutes at the beginning of a reboot and then take 35 seconds to pick them all up with my wraiths.

I don't have a time stamped log, and I am not making another necromancer just to re-prove you wrong. When I did my 10-15 wraith runs I would hit teron and tlaxcala, using any access I had (tribunal NPCs or a control) for the first 3-4 NPCs, then I would just use wraiths to insta-kill things. Believe me. 10-15 minutes to be fully buffed with 20+ wraiths. Alone. If you can't do it, it isn't because it's impossible. I did it repeatedly -> and infact, I would get 15 wraiths and 20 wights in the same amount of time when I used the animate dead wand that I got wimped.

I can think of maybe 1? time I had another PC help me, and that was because he asked what I was doing ;).

Anyone who plays a necromancer now is still the equivalent of 3-4 PCs of any other class. It's OBVIOUSLY an imbalanced class to anyone who plays a competitive pvp game.

Just a few tips incase you still are lost:

Keep rifts opened between tlax, teron, and the empire inn. That way, every tick you can sleep for huge mana gain. You can buy the haste wands beforehand. You can buy the spears beforehand. Take a look at my logs -> even when someone holy worded me they still died.

As far as 'how many that I spam-killed were good' -> I was walking through cities ALL DAY. Nobody even logged on to fight me after a short while. It was a joke. I only quit because the lighties actually surrendered, rofl. Benjamin was in shock at how they surrendered to me and not to him, even though he had been around for months. Necromancers are just far, far overpowered. If you can't see it you are a newbie.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:14 am 
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Drewbag wrote:
Assholes. Players being assholes to players, not characters to characters as it should be.


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