Shattered Kingdoms

Let's get back to talking necro stuff and not bashing each other.

I'd like to throw an idea out there (*prepares his shield*) for consideration. I think the change to make animated undead reflect the corpse from which they were raised was a really cool thematic change. What if we took that a bit further? Raising a giant's corpse gave the animated undead the boulder skill. Raising a centaur or a griffon allows you to mount them, or allows you to have a different animated, or controlled undead, mount the centaur skeleton.

Here's where it gets crazy...

Animating a dragon makes a size huge undead with reach and natural flight. Zombie dragons could have dragonscale hides. Maybe they also get detects like normal dragons?

Certainly this would be very powerful. Very powerful, indeed. The animated undead dragon horde would still be vulnerable to BoG and holy word. They would also be annoying to take around due to being size huge (although rifts are size huge, the gate spell is not).

This idea might also separate the veteran necromancer who spends time preparing an army of dragons or demons, versus the newbie necromancer who just finds whatever GM NPC he can find to make GM skeletons (or whatever the case may be)

I don't know that this sort of change would be good, I don't know if it is needed. I would like us to get back on track with this necro discussion and quit bashing each other. For all of us calling out Edoras (MYSELF INCLUDED), we are not furthering the discussion any more than someone whining about a change to their character class.

It will never happen, but +1.

Because the damage of animates got hit so hard, the problem is that they can no longer be a reasonable threat in the time that it takes for them to get downed by holy word, even in a good engagement from a necro. Aside from upping their physical damage, increasing their HP, or in some other way making it so that they don't wasted in one or two holy word bombs, nothing that you do to "add" to animated undead will make them any more useful.

I disagree, Edoras. A necro's enemies need some way to deal with the massive horde of undead. That way is holy word. I feel like it is the necro's job to avoid the holy word. There are ways to do that (leaving out the drive by holy word, for now), obviously, and you know it. Holy word shouldn't be the change here (again, leaving the drive by out).

Obviously there should never be any threat to a necromancer so that they can steamroll hapless newbs.

My point was that arguing for any sort of buff to animates that doesn't involve them not getting instantly smoked by holy words or increasing their maximum damage output is a waste of time. It doesn't matter if your animates can reach across ranks, fly, be mounted, use boulders, or use any other manner of ancillary racial features if they're still going to get dropped in 3 combat rounds. None of those things will make any sort of appreciable difference. Sure, it'd be neat from an RP standpoint, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be any more viable.

Necros are absolutely terrible against their natural enemies. If someone rolls a necro and plans on beating up a bunch of grey auras and dark-auras, then -everyone- comes after him, and things are even worse. Even though a necro will have to put a lot more work into his army prep, and be much more personally vulnerable to BoG, holy word, arrows and voodoo, he is still going to get smoked by a solo paladin who only has to worry about himself and his pet.

I'd like to suggest two spells to be dolled out to different classes, which I've seen on other Muds:

Desecrate and Sanctify

They are spells that would be cast in a zone which DULL the magical damage of the opposite spectrum. AKA Holy/Light based spells would work poorly in a zone that is Desecrated, and Negative / Darkness spells would work poorly in a zone that is Sanctified. There could be slight bonuses to their own type of magic in these areas too.

Obviously the spell would take time to cast, be instantaneous, and likely have a cooldown time before being able to be recast, but ultimately it would alter the room for a time. This would help against players barging in where another has prepared and fortified themselves and having a surprise advantage.

The disadvantages to a spell like this is you tie yourself to a room / area. But it would help people fortify themselves for defensive purposes.

I'm not sure if there is an equivalent Neutral spell you could add, but depending on the classes you gave the spell to: Hellion, Necromancer, Paladins, you wouldn't need to consider a neutral equivalent. Perhaps the neutral benefit is they are not affected by desecrated or sanctified zones.

Finally the spells would neutralize each other if cast in an area. But given they're long exacting spells it would be hard to barge in and cancel someone's defenses.

Anyway I'd suggest something like this would help a necromancer considerably fortify themselves and their evil minions.

turn undead

My suggestion was meant to add more tactics rather than just paste on a +1 damage sticker to an undead. I'm not saying my suggestion was OMGawesome, but I think it was worth discussion.

Aside from drive by holy words, I think a necromancer has ample ways to deal with BoG and holy word. You can enchant for MR and cast spell ward. This has definitely been done by successful necromancers and makes it a huge pain for a paladin to deal with. I've dealt with that as a paladin before. As a paladin, you have to then make the call between trying to destroy the undead, or hoping for a lucky shot at the necro (getting passed their MR).

I think the necro SHOULD be scared of a brigade of holy rollers who are trying to holy word his undead. Just as the holy rollers fear the necromancer and his army of undead.

I guess I just don't see the extreme vulnerabilities, except to paladins. BOG is still pretty easy to dodge with (scribable) eth and MI. The only really bad one is voodoo but a lot of folks deal with that.