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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Dulrik wrote:
Edoras wrote:
To be completely honest, you can pretty much throw all maledictions out the window here when it comes to PvP, because if you wanted to roll a class that casts maledictions in PvP, you should have rolled a class that doesn't have to immediately recall upon reaching the second row ie: shaman or hellion.

This is really the only thing that interests me right now.

Give up on raising the damage of animates back up, because that's just not going to happen. But I DO want necromancers to be viable as a malediction class.
Necros are way way way way too squishy to be useful as a malediction class. Maledictions are only useful in a long fight where you have time to both impair your enemies and then land a handful of maledictions on them. Even assuming that every malediction you cast landed, it would take 3-4 rounds to cast curse, weaken and slow on a target. With any sort of a decent fort save it's more like 8 rounds just to land those 3 basic maledictions. Maledictions are also useless if you have no way to keep people in the room, because once the maledictions start landing due to impairment they can just leave.

Anyone who wants to roll a malediction class should roll a shaman. They wear light armor, have much better HP, can heal themselves, can't be voodoo'd, can voodoo, can ignore physical damage from the second rank on account of GM spirit aura, and they even have the best spell damage in the game in the form of call lightning, which is heads and shoulders above any other damage spell in the game, especially finger of death. The -only- thing that necros get above shaman in terms of maledictions is fear, and fear is not even close to good enough to warrant all the benefits of being a shaman instead.

On the other hand, you also have hellions, which have all the same maledictions except shaman and necro except for dispel and slow. Hellions have even higher HP and can wear heavy armor, although they're actually worse for tanking than shaman.

There is absolutely no reason to ever choose necro over shaman or hellion as a malediction class. They're infinitely more squishy.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:07 pm 
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That pesky call lightning. It's too bad that every room in the game is outside.

If call lightning is so great, how come nobody ever uses it?


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Necros can get 14! art. In a 2v2 without any undead but controls they should more than hold their own as male doctors/wand dps.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:13 pm 
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patrisaurus wrote:
Necros can get 14! art. In a 2v2 without any undead but controls they should more than hold their own as male doctors/wand dps.


I can't decide if that's funnier if it's a phone text correct (or something), or you did it on purpose.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Oops. Phone. I'm taking a dump in case you were wondering. Trying not to let it spill into this thread as it seems to have been [REDACTED] on enough already.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:19 pm 
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If that 2v2 happens to have an MR barb, priest, sorc, shaman or paladin on the other side, then those controls are going to be either dead or fighting the necro's own team in the first 3-4 rounds, probably before the first malediction even gets through. If any of the other 2 happens to be a ranged merc, scout, or warlock, then the necro is going to be too busy quaffing heals to cast any more than a couple maledictions.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Location: 'Merica
SK Character: Adalwulf, Whinston, Eberhardt
The obvious solution is to make sure your ghouls are hiding and sneaking enough that those pesky ranged mercs/scouts don't know they are there. *nod self*




Don


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:28 pm 
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I can't decide whether I would rather that be a troll or be serious.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:44 pm 
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OOH! OOH! Go with "Troll"! Go with "Troll"! It's loads more fun!
Seriously, man. You need to chill out. Yes, your favorite class just got not so much "screwed" as bent over the table and the breaks beaten off it.
It sucks. No doubt you will learn how to apply a newer strategy, and the usual cry-babies will demand (and get) further nerfing. You get used to it. I was pretty irate when lags were added to cleave, but I got over it.



Don


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Edoras wrote:
If that 2v2 happens to have an MR barb, priest, sorc, shaman or paladin on the other side, then those controls are going to be either dead or fighting the necro's own team in the first 3-4 rounds, probably before the first malediction even gets through. If any of the other 2 happens to be a ranged merc, scout, or warlock, then the necro is going to be too busy quaffing heals to cast any more than a couple maledictions.


Let me do this once to amuse you-

MR barb: on the other team: 1 v 1 get the jump on him and start with a bash before he gets aura of win up, higher #s put a control with a heavy reaching weapon behind your melee teammate and let it just go to town. Free gm barb 2nd row dpser sounds pretty awesome.

Priest: so holy word does some damage and maybe dispels controls - leave em out if you insist, use your maledictions. 1 on 1 this is a joke, 2 v 2 you presumably have teammates not being braindead.

Sorc/Shaman: What? I mean yeah, you're going to lose controls if you sit around with your thumb in your [REDACTED] doing nothing, but in those same 2-3 rounds you could be owning their front row and bashing them.

Paladin: This is a challenge for you and should be!

Arrows: LOL

Warlock: Ranged magic damage being a challenge isn't unique to necros, but in a straight fight, I'd take dispelling his unretrievable elemental over your re-controllable undead.

I mean, come on dude. This is why a lot of us can't take you seriously. You get butthurt over things you think will make you less awesome and then start projecting out into the future as if everyone in the game is going to reroll based on your exact build weaknesses, become as good a player as you, make the right moves every single time, and that you'll die instantly and omg it's so unfair and personal against you.

Just play some. Make some IC friends. See how it goes.


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