Shattered Kingdoms

I disagree.

Oh, my turn to pick a fight!

I think what Rial ment is this:

Hellions are honorable.

Sk Players are not.

No i meant to say that its impossible to actually roleplay an honorable hellion, because our ideas of honor all come from the real world. And the way hellions act does not fit in with what people in the real world consider to be honorable.

I suppose you could be an honorable hellion if you didn't use your skills though.

You know back in the day it was an honorable thing to go pillage your neighbor and take his gold and women. Now a days that's a war crime. But in the middle age atmosphere that is shattered kingdoms I think it's perfectly oocly fine to find honor in what a hellion does if you see it from the lens of history and not modern times.

I play a patriotic hellion of order and I believe the honor of my hellion is kept very much in tact. The only thing that came close to a lie was me telling a marfikian if he gave me my symbol back I would not kill him. Well maybe you all know but I ended up killing him with the excuse I did not say how long you would be free of order's purging effects on chaos. That is the only time my hellion found a loophole in his words and it was only b/c it was a marfikian and I rped the animosity they share with one another.

To me cleaving from invis and hide is not dishonorable or rogue like. Rogue stab people in the back hellions will come to your face and cleave you. There's a subtle difference. If I've said to someone you will die by my weapon or my my prayer then invis hide sneak and cleave them. It's not like no one has ever dodged a cleave before. There's no real advantage to cleaving someone from invis and hide besides the initial first attack and a hellion making sure he has the advantage of first blood is not dishonorable he just used what he did do gain the first strike. It's not like backstab where if you're hidden it does more damage it just does it's damage, you step out of the shadows if you flee you lose exp points so there's penalties to that as well.

There really is no cookie cutter mold for hellions as there is no cookie cutter mold for any one religion. That's why there's different high followers in a religion and they can't blemish other high followers. So no one will force their one view of the faith. It is absurd to think every knight should act accordingly and be pretty much the same. You're leaving room for only 3 types of dark knights, fear inspiring knights, logical and just knights and conquering knights.

Furthermore there's different ways to play hellions, as a fighter, a caster or a hybrid of the two. A hellion does ot get fourth attack so there's really no way in a straight up one on one brawl they'll be even to a merc or a barb who has fourth attacks an other melee skills like rally cry or berserk and fury. They way a hellion would even the fight against one of those classes would have to be by utilizing what the barb and merc do not have, and that is certain maledictions and other so called underhanded tactics that can even the playing field. So there's really no one way for a hellion to conduct themselves in a fight besides that they should do their best to win the fight.

I'd also like to emphasize I do see hellions as having to be honorable and I rp my hellion to dislike and have great hatred to knights I see that do not show this honor. But remember in a hellion code honor is second to strength and honor comes from strength. I believe the main difference in a hellion and paladin is that a paladin fights for others and a hellion fights for himself. Asides from their prayers and some skills they are knights and that is that.

I think you get a bonus to damage when you attack someone that can't see you. I mean you can try all you want to argue that hellions are honorable but when I see a class thats entire skillset is based on landing the first attack in combat and even then, poisoning and weakening their enemy so they don't have to fight them on an even playingfield, I have trouble not thinking of them as cowardly.

I don't see anything wrong with the skill or spell set or honor.

I don't either, but people like Rial (and I mean no offense) think that if you have hide and invis you MUST BE HIDDEN AND INVIS AND YOU MUST CLEAVE OR ELSE YOU WON'T DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AND YOU WILL LOSE!! Definitely the wrong way to think about things but from what I've gathered he's not the only one who thinks that way.

The whole reason Hellion's get stealth are to inspire fear. It's basically wondering that if he's standing right behind you when you whisper said hellion's name or if they're keeping tabs on you. Paranoia and fear work well. Although they do have them, in my opinion a Hellion shouldn't cleave someone from the shadows / invis. Atleast, that's my take on it.

I am pretty sure that Dulrik stated somewhere that Hellions shouldn't be cleaving from a hidden position.

I'm pretty sure whoever ate a hide cleave should have been detecting.