Shattered Kingdoms

I just don't agree that this spell is unavoidable and without drawbacks. Or that it is the worst thing that could happen. Or that nobody rps during a charm. You are equally screwed with any the other insta-death skills (with the exception of being jailed, I guess) but at least with charm the user is forced to rp with you.

I think it is really ridiculous though to say you can't rp it, or that it somehow strips away your character. If you can't conceive of roleplaying a person who is under a spell that makes them beholden to another individual, then you're just not very creative. There are plenty of ways to interpret that without just doing the empty shell thing.

I understand some people have had bad experiences with this spell, but some people enjoy the possibilities. I just think we could minimize the bad experiences if it the saves were fixed, since there are already a lot of restrictions on it's use.

Anyone can RP being charmed, most dont, including me, because they know that they'll be killed and looted anyways so whats the point.

If you think there's no point in roleplaying just because you're going to die and lose your stuff, well, I have nothing to say to that.

Sorcs already have an insta-death spell. Petrification.

Why do they get Charm Person on PCs too?

Charm Person is already so ridiculously OPd from a utility point of view that this would not wimp the class very much. It'd remove a part of the game most people hate.

I personally don't mind RPing charm. And enjoy it. However, nobody [REDACTED] charms you in PK and then stops to RP with you. It's c charm xxx, help kill your group, okay, now eject and die. Or c charm xxx, hi, what's your name, okay yeah, we're enemies, strip, fight this NPC and die, kthx. And if they DID stop to RP with you. It's hard to be in the mood to RPing liking someone when you know you basically just got ganked.

And this is coming from probably the most prolific user of the CP spell. I used it for RP /a lot/(with no eq loss on the individual). I also used it for PK /a lot/(with eq loss). The spell should not affect PCs.

Nobody truly RPs during charm, there is no such thing.


I'm afraid, ridiculous is to say otherwise.


There is nothing to conceive, charm utterly dominates the mind of the target.


The RP of people is based on countless experiences throughout their life, especially if they are long lived. Interpretation of the sort, requires that you put those experiences aside and RP a "John Doe".


I personally haven't been affected by charm, ever.


I'm sure you mean, the casters.

There are no arguments to refute these facts, Marfik.
Roleplaying is not something you do only for laughs. It should be able to make you feel excited, sad, disappointed, happy etc. To make a character and grow with him, feel how he feels, act as he would and so on...
Achieving this level of roleplaying, leads to the full understanding of the facts mentioned.

The only acceptable guideline would be something like... You now RP "John Doe", read the help file to learn how John Doe behaves.

My only [REDACTED] experience with charm the past few years has been deep-elves charming my elves and making him do the stupidest of [REDACTED]: Saying "I love you" to a deep-elf, as an Elf, and "Will you make love to me" and all this other garbage. My other experience has been my expert level mercenary getting charmed by WickedWitch, whom I've never met, for the sole purpose of taking a weapon that I bought in a store because apparently Shurikens were popular back then. It's either used to forcibly take gear from people, or to do the stupidest things I've ever seen in the name of 'sillyness'.f

Based on the content of your posts, I'm not sure if you realize something that I feel is obvious:

"Charm Person" roleplay only exists as much as the charmer wants to roleplay with you.

Every time you get charmed, someone's looking to do some deep soul-searching roleplay with you, right? No, they're trying to drag your [REDACTED] to the nearest "I win when I release" spot, or do something equally malicious. Their only desire for RP is an adequately RPed boner-inducer in something like "you are my master" or "do what you want" so they know they don't have to rush before you try to do something to get out of it before you can take their #*&$.

This being used as a roleplay spell is an insanely rare exception, and not the rule. I think the even rarer exception is the person that refuses to RP when it's shown to be a purely RP scenario. How you want to portray it, and how it's actually used seem to be insanely distant things. So very few people have any problem roleplaying being a charmed individual. I think the majority of the problem lies with its abuse as an I-WIN spell, the absolute impossibility of resistance outside of an MR kit, and the general absolute absence of sport nearly every caster has when using it.

My vote for "no" exists with one of two caveats:

-Every ordered command, room moved, and every tick on top of it has an extremely high chance for a PC to "break" the charm person. Think persuade-on-PC's failure rate, except on steroids. They regain their senses, etc. NPCs should have a much, much lower - but still existent - similar check. I can be persuaded to remove the check from NPCs, but I think the prevalence of charms in NPC wars just adds fuel to the fire and should be axed. But, that's me - I think the first part of this suggestion will fit everyone's desires.

-Fix the save so that a PC with 6-10 willpower won't get charmed pretty much ever, art or no art.

PS: I roll almost exclusively in magic resistance sets because of things like this. I don't ever deal with this problem. I can empathize, though.

Alas, it seems the public has spoken. For what it's worth I voted yes for the following reasons:

a) Charm person is the single most useful utility spell in the game, even if it couldn't affect PCs it would be insanely useful.

b) Sorcerers would be incredibly powerful even without the ability to charm PCs

c) Giving one class 2 "I-win" spells skews the scales of balance

d) I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't need a spell to help me RP

e) CP on PCs causes too much problems and grief for a game that supposedly promotes fun and escapism


All this is coming from someone who's had nothing but positive experiences with charm person, on both ends. But seeing as this is a lost battle let's move on to more important matters - removing final strike (yes I went there).

The help files say otherwise. I don't believe you are an empty shell. I believe that you still have your morals, beliefs, etc., but you have a deep love for the caster, and that you would do anything to appease them out of that love. You have the say and emote commands for things like this.

Charmer to lightie charmee: Hey, would you kill this child for me?
Charmee: I really don't want to, and my vows actually prohibit it, but if it pleases you, then I shall.
Charmee smiles as he stares at his most favorite person in the realms.
Charmer does o charmee kill child

Nowhere in any of the help files does it say you become an empty shell. The first thing you do when you get charmed is a scripted emote of looking at the caster with adoring eyes.

I've found it enjoyable at times to play the submissive part, but that's probably because I'm a people pleaser IRL. Making others smile makes me smile...odd I know.


Again, nowhere does it say this. No where does it say domination utterly dominates the mind, but I do believe, just from the name of that spell, that it should be the case.


Interpretation of what sort? Oh, wait. I know which sort. The one that I didn't go with.


You should try it some time.


I enjoy the possibilities. Ask Alisu. Charmed me on a couple of characters and both times, I had fun.


Refuted, but I doubt you will like any of them and will probably come up with some way to make them all invalid in your eyes, but you must remember that your eyes aren't the only ones that matter in this game. We all bring different attitudes and interpretations to the table, and I am not saying your empty shell interpretation is wrong, but I am saying it isn't the only valid interpretation.

I do feel excited, sad, disappointed, happy etc. when I am RPing under charm. If I do something that, if i mess up, will get me killed, i get excited. When I succeed, I'm happy. Then they kill me anyway, and I'm sad. The charm didn't go as I would have like, so I'm disappointed.

Code wise what is the difference between the Sorceror spell (charm person) and the hellion spell (domination)? They have the same save? Can't domination be used against PCs too?