Alignments

theORplayer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:35 am **Posts:** 138

Just a point, and maybe I'm TOOOOOOTALLLY off base here but:

I think we should focus on attracting new players and keeping them. The who lists are the most important thing right now (and they're kinda low imho!!) and I don't see how spending energy in this direction is the best way to accomplish that.

Maybe we can table this and focus instead of things that would actively benefit the player who first? not that any of these are great/bad ideas just tossing it out there!

amandagreathouse · **Joined:** Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:34 am **Posts:** 166

ninja_ardith wrote:

I'm against alignment changes. If you wanted to play a character of that alignment, then you should have rolled that alignment. I know some people think they're special little snowflakes that need attention, but they're not. Alignment is an immutable part of who the character is, much like their race and sex. If we can change our alignment, why not our race and our sex?

I'm also against class changes. The ridiculous love I've seen done in D&D sessions because of multi-class is just wrong.

Just do everybody a favor and roll a new character if you want this.

But... there are spells that can change your race. There are spells that can change your sex.

So I'm not sure why it is you're not supposed to be able to change the other thing you put under the same heading.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

There's also a spell that can change your alignment!!! Or so I heard or something. Polymorph, and change sex do not change your race and sex. They only modify them temporarily.

amandagreathouse · **Joined:** Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:34 am **Posts:** 166

ninja_ardith wrote:

There's also a spell that can change your alignment!!! Or so I heard or something. Polymorph, and change sex do not change your race and sex. They only modify them temporarily.

Can't you die of old age by polymorphing into a 103 year old human from a 103 year old elf? That seems a little permanent, albeit the fact that the spell effect is intended to be temporary.

I did not know there was a spell to change alignment though. Interesting.

amandagreathouse · **Joined:** Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:34 am **Posts:** 166

theORplayer wrote:

Just a point, and maybe I'm TOOOOOOTALLLY off base here but:

I think we should focus on attracting new players and keeping them. The who lists are the most important thing right now (and they're kinda low imho!!) and I don't see how spending energy in this direction is the best way to accomplish that.

Maybe we can table this and focus instead of things that would actively benefit the player who first? not that any of these are great/bad ideas just tossing it out there!

What direction do you think should be taken to do that, and how is that related to the thread topic, just out of curiosity?

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

amandagreathouse wrote:

ninja_ardith wrote:

There's also a spell that can change your alignment!!! Or so I heard or something. Polymorph, and change sex do not change your race and sex. They only modify them temporarily.

Can't you die of old age by polymorphing into a 103 year old human from a 103 year old elf? That seems a little permanent, albeit the fact that the spell effect is intended to be temporary.

I did not know there was a spell to change alignment though. Interesting.

You can die, sure, but it's not permanent in that situation. You'll revert back to your original race and still be eligible for a resurrection, raise dead, etc. The fact remains that you're still not actually a human if you're an elf polymorphing into a human.

Tojishiro · **Posted:** Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:42 pm

theORplayer wrote:

Just a point, and maybe I'm TOOOOOOTALLLY off base here but:

I think we should focus on attracting new players and keeping them. The who lists are the most important thing right now (and they're kinda low imho!!) and I don't see how spending energy in this direction is the best way to accomplish that.

Maybe we can table this and focus instead of things that would actively benefit the player who first? not that any of these are great/bad ideas just tossing it out there!

Generally, in every game, there are four ways to maintain players as well as attract new ones.
1. Interesting Features
2. Helpful Communities
3. Helpful Staff
4. Engaging Events

The idea discussed herein, falls well within no 1 and by itself might serve to attract a few players. Besides, there are other MUDs out there that have features such as multi-classing and alignment changes and such.

Another "feature" would be player housing as discussed in another thread. Regardless, discussing about a new feature that might be implemented, and that feature not being a simple alteration or improvement, is good. It is something that will cater to the (perceived or otherwise) need of some players that today have no way to be catered.

The other three categories are all dependent on players and imms, whereas #1 is purely dependent on coding. So, if any of us would want to make the MUD a better place, we all already know how we can help. And admittedly, the game has made strides in becoming friendlier in the past years.

ladyjennbo · **Posted:** Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:18 pm

Galactus wrote:

ladyjennbo wrote:

I like the alignment change, but I don't like class change implementations. If you want to change your alignment AND your class, you should just roll a new character. If you choose to be a paladin or a hellion, those vows are FOR LYFE. I'm with Dulrik - certain class/race/alignment combos should just be banned.

But changing your alignment? Let's do it. I'm not sure if I ever would - leveling is hard enough for the casual player without having to do it all over again - but I'd LOVE to see other people's RP if they did it.

I never said that I liked the idea of being able to leave your class, persay. I said if xxx then yyy. I agree with you on generally on classes though, if you choose hellion/paladin that is for life. Obviously, race restrictions should be the same. I think we all agree on that. A human that started as a necromancer, that through RP showed he doesn't want anything to do with necromancy though, starting them again at lvl 1 as a sorc, I would not find to out of the ball park. Redemption/villany stories should be rare and if it cost loyalty tokens and being brought back to lvl 1, I think it would still be rare. Those stories should be snowflake stories. Another option to help stop any truly dramatic shifts in alignment is make the LT cost scale with how drastic the change is. Principled -> Scrupulous could be like 15LT (semi-random number) but if you wanted to go from Principled -> Diabolic should cost something like 100LT just to show how unlikely, but still show it could happen. Each one should be tailored for that alignment though. I think going from Principled -> Scrup/Dogmatic is more likely than a Scrup -> Dogmatic. I can see someone who started as Dogmatic -> Aberrent/Principled more likely than than any other alignment.

Okay, you swayed me, but only because I really want to see the redeemed necromancer. STILL NO DARKIE GRIFFONS/SELFISH ELVES/ETC please!

grep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 5522

ladyjennbo wrote:

Okay, you swayed me, but only because I really want to see the redeemed necromancer. STILL NO DARKIE GRIFFONS/SELFISH ELVES/ETC please!

I think a lot of the opinions various community members hold are based on incomplete and second-hand information. After readings Dulrik's replies, I think I can approve of a transparent system any player could activate and be judged by with objective standards and community input. His points made sense and his ideas were good.

Maybe I can be corrected on this, but isn't one of the most (in)famous examples of alignment change in the game's distant past an example of the elf/deep-elf line being crossed?

Dulrik · **Posted:** Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:10 pm

ninja_ardith wrote:

I'm against alignment changes. If you wanted to play a character of that alignment, then you should have rolled that alignment. I know some people think they're special little snowflakes that need attention, but they're not. Alignment is an immutable part of who the character is, much like their race and sex. If we can change our alignment, why not our race and our sex?

I'm also against class changes. The ridiculous love I've seen done in D&D sessions because of multi-class is just wrong.

Just do everybody a favor and roll a new character if you want this.

I don't agree with exactly what you are saying, but I think in some ways you are making my point for me on the mechanics.

There is only one time when you can choose your alignment - when you are starting out at level 1. You say that you should roll a new character if you want this - well I'm basically agreeing with you and making you roll the character again. However, it's against the rules to claim you are the same character by actually re-rolling. This feature would let you keep your RP relationships, money and some low-level items (because the good stuff will get stolen on the first logout).

Even for people who can power level really fast, they are not going to want to do this unless they are intensely serious about the character's story. I don't want people changing alignment often enough for things to start getting confusing. If we get more than a couple of people a year who actually do this, then I think it was not rough enough.

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