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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Kirsenvar wrote:
Kin wrote:
The lag of B aug and F minor is enough that any competent pker will be upon you before it's even gone and their first move will be bash. It always is. Not only that, it's limitation is 1 room away, so that's plenty of time for speed dart / run to be right on you. The fact that it even hits your pet means that it's suicide using it to begin with. Even if it does have deafen, the only time you can use it is when you're solo or else your group will be picked apart.

How would making persuade non agro be overpowered? You can't persuade people to drop items or remove things. It's not charm. The most you can do is disband groups etc and most of the times you won't know who the leader is to ask to disband the group (unless you get lucky or know who a common leader is.) As it is now, it's mostly used for buff collecting with the exception of a saavy bard who occasionally does use it as said above.



Regarding concentration, as stated my H-elf has max int and songs of sleep and silence require so much concentration that they can't be maintained while combatting two NPCs. Considering most high end levelling places have groups of NPCs, the moment you enter combat you'll drop it.

I didn't mention countersongs simply because they're perfect as is. The problem with bards is they only realistically have 3 useful things (sleep, healing and silence) and arguably the only useful things. (I rarely see people use songs of war for PK or songs of protection).

In conclusion i'm not saying bards should be total team wreckers solo or so, but they should have some survivability and versatilty that they could use other means besides just songs of sleep and silence in groups. As of now, that's really all they're good for PK wise. B aug sixth and F minor should have some way of only targeting people not in your group or so, kind of like songs of silence. Perhaps have them do that whlie dancing like silence does. As it stands now, using either will kill you and your group.



Hrm does B aug affect an already deafened char? You could just deafen your pet.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Kirsenvar wrote:
Kirsenvar wrote:
Kin wrote:
The lag of B aug and F minor is enough that any competent pker will be upon you before it's even gone and their first move will be bash. It always is. Not only that, it's limitation is 1 room away, so that's plenty of time for speed dart / run to be right on you. The fact that it even hits your pet means that it's suicide using it to begin with. Even if it does have deafen, the only time you can use it is when you're solo or else your group will be picked apart.

How would making persuade non agro be overpowered? You can't persuade people to drop items or remove things. It's not charm. The most you can do is disband groups etc and most of the times you won't know who the leader is to ask to disband the group (unless you get lucky or know who a common leader is.) As it is now, it's mostly used for buff collecting with the exception of a saavy bard who occasionally does use it as said above.



Regarding concentration, as stated my H-elf has max int and songs of sleep and silence require so much concentration that they can't be maintained while combatting two NPCs. Considering most high end levelling places have groups of NPCs, the moment you enter combat you'll drop it.

I didn't mention countersongs simply because they're perfect as is. The problem with bards is they only realistically have 3 useful things (sleep, healing and silence) and arguably the only useful things. (I rarely see people use songs of war for PK or songs of protection).

In conclusion i'm not saying bards should be total team wreckers solo or so, but they should have some survivability and versatilty that they could use other means besides just songs of sleep and silence in groups. As of now, that's really all they're good for PK wise. B aug sixth and F minor should have some way of only targeting people not in your group or so, kind of like songs of silence. Perhaps have them do that whlie dancing like silence does. As it stands now, using either will kill you and your group.



Hrm does B aug affect an already deafened char? You could just deafen your pet.


Chords still affect deafened people, they just do less damage. Bards can't have pets at all if they wish to use either F minor or B aug sixth simply because it breaks the charm and the pet attacks them due to being damaged.

Edit: Speaking of which, seeing as I'm apparently doing it wrong, what can someone do to help take hits. As it is now,I had full mithril and when I attacked a rogue, the lion done around 56% dmg to me. My half-elf has max con and was wearing full mithril but wasn't buffed. What is possible to do to mitigate damage? Encahnts? Different armor?


Last edited by Kin on Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 pm 
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So order your pet to engage someone else before singing the chord. Then it's distracted. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:08 pm 
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VelvetWinter wrote:
So order your pet to engage someone else before singing the chord. Then it's distracted. :roll:


This.

Also, bards have no excuse not to be buffed. No excuse whatsoever. They have a skill that gives them access to just about ever buff in the game, and have the skills/songs to get enough favors from any sorc/priest to get the scrolls or vials necessary for any other buffs they can't get on their own.

A bard in stance defensive, fully buffed, dancing, with songs of sleep going is very, very hard to hit. When they do get hit, it's going to hurt, a LOT, but they have a great chance of dodging, or deflecting, most of the hits that come in on them. For example:

Zellidon wrote:
I once saw Tyna tank 9 bronze dragons :o


I didn't just charge in, naked or in unenchanted gear, unbuffed, and shooting from the hip. Bards rank up amongst the highest prep-intensive classes in the game, and some of the most complicated to play effectively in the hugely diverse number of circumstances a bard is useful. I think my buff list during this encounter was something like 12-14 lines long, and my gear was hardly sub-par. Even then, I didn't last more than four rounds before I had to tumble out behind another group member and pick up songs of sleep again and soak a few heals (and to be fair, I think only about 6 of the 9 were focused on me during that time).

Kin, bards are hard to play. The number and intensity of tweaks you're looking for is unreasonable. They don't need that much. What they do need is a lot of time, preparation, and effort, and some key relationship-building skills to keep that level of prep on their person at all times.


Last edited by ObjectivistActivist on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:11 pm 
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I didn't say that, Zellidon did. And I was the one actually tanking those dragons tyvm.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:14 pm 
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Sakhul wrote:
I didn't say that, Zellidon did. And I was the one actually tanking those dragons tyvm.


Fixed. Misread, sorry.

And yes, I have done it with you, but I've also done it without you, and described the encounter well. When Sakhul was around, why would Tyna need to tank the dragons? He did such a better job of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Rawr!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:34 pm 
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What bards REALLY need is their own songs by Aura, Its just hard to picture an evil bard walking around singing about shaking booties, they should be singing about skeletons, some rob zombie type of things. - Probably not helping the current post.. but yeah.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Raina wrote:
What bards REALLY need is their own songs by Aura, Its just hard to picture an evil bard walking around singing about shaking booties, they should be singing about skeletons, some rob zombie type of things. - Probably not helping the current post.. but yeah.


I've tried to find the lyrics that tailor best to my bards personality.

Dark Shall Rules the Realms
Slash, Stab, Rend, Smash
Flesh and Bone
Playing with Fire
Powers of Song


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Kin wrote:
The only improvements or tweaks I was asking for was something to give them a bit of survivability. Are they tanks? No, I know they're not. I'm not asking them to be, but what I am asking for is a bit more versatility than just having to sit in a group and sing songs of sleep or silence.


If your problem is leveling, just stand behind a good tanking pet (I like the stately camels) and use your whip and songs. Most areas can be worked out just fine this way, at least comparing it with how most of the classes would do it.


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