Shattered Kingdoms

Granting dual membership as things currently are: Horrible idea.

As far as Cannibal's ideas.... some were pretty good, some rubbed me the wrong way. The blight spell is one of those things that rubbed me the wrong way. It gives the power to affect too wide a range of people with no interaction, and only steepens the learner's curve.

As far as the cabal chat goes, having [MIDNIGHT][MEMBER] keep popping up on your screen with different messages is a huge headache. Here's an idea, if you want to make Cabal chat secretive.

help cbname

usage: Cbname (name)

Sometimes anonymity among even your own cabal can be a
desired facet. In this case, you can change the name given to
others when you communicate with your cabal mates over the
cabal channel.

Ex.

Everyone would see


That actually sounds pretty cool. Of course, a time limit on how often you can change your cbname would be set, to avoid annoyances. And the leader would, of course, always see the true name along with the false one. There would also be a cabal leaderhide option, so that the leader tag would not show up on the leader's cabal chat. The perfect way to weed out a rat, if you were inventive.


Would appear as:
.

But...



Everyone sees:


Also, I think it would be prudent, if law NPCs were to be allowed to leave the country to fight another you're at war with, to have them not be allowed in Teron. That would make things more interesting in Teron, and keep tribunals from being overpowered in Teron. They'll still follow you, but auto assist is turned off, and they're silenced, or something to that effect. Since you can't declare war ON Teron, it makes no sense to bring tribunal NPCs there, and it would just make Teron the tribunal NPC [REDACTED] city.

As far as certain skills only being accessible through certain tribunal/cabal combos, I don't really like that idea. It would be really awesome, but it would also be way too much work. The robes also need some definite work, I think. It's no fun to wage a cabal war when all you see are what looks like a bunch of NPCs. Takes too much out of the game, and I can only think of what it would be like wondering whether it's the fourth or fifth robed figure that's casting a spell.

IA causing nothing but misses, I -really- like.
As for making cabal spells secret by having no concentration time... nah. Joining a cabal doesn't give you the amazing ability to cast arcane magic without anyone noticing. Maybe only certain cabals could be granted this ability, like only one cabal.

Robes need a lot of work. Perhaps have a permanant adjective set upon induction, such that when a robe is donned, your current adjective is replaced by the other. Sort of like a permanent disguise script implemented by all robes for said cabal.

Ex.

Then whenever you wore a robe, people saw



or perhaps set the robes for each cabal to appear different. Something pretty, cause when you see them, there are more than likely going to be dead people.




FOR ALL YOU WHO DON'T LIKE READING:

Trib NPCs in Teron should become useless while in Teron.
cbname and cabal leaderhide should be implemented.
eliminating concentration time for cabal spells - very bad.
cabal appearance needs to be implemented.

Edoras,

I like the cbname suggestion, if it can be done.

I disagree with requiring cabal spells to have the "starts to concentrate" appear. If you don't remove that, it is impossible to use cabal spells without giving away your allegiance. To me this is required. Also, being in a cabal doesn't give the user the ability to do it with any spells other then those gained through membership.

With the added cabal power, in which blight was an example, they are a group casting spell. Therefore some form of interaction is required to use. More importantly, because there is a cost to casting them, the cabal casting it would have to be committed to doing so. I doubt they would do such a thing unless they were benefiting from using the spell, meaning most of the time it has come about from interaction with a tribunal (either the target or being hired to use it on another tribunal).

Regarding the robes, I see your point. Although, I also see the robes as needed for things like cabal inductions. That is why Cannibal included the nasty side-effect of losing all your loot if killed in it (or so I assume that is why he added it). But if that wasn't enough some kind of negative affect could be added. Off the top of my head, while being worn all beneficial affects (except for invis, hide, sneak, and camo) are not in effect. But there is also something to be said for seeing a group of non-descript characters appear and do something. I would suggest that all robes make the wearer non-descript but also shows them to be of XYZ cabal. You don't know who it is, but you know they are an adept.

I also see your point about tribunal NPCs in Teron. I have to say this is a point I'm totally up in the air about.

Lei Kung

...and we didn't need no stinking robes. They -managed- it as you've said. Through tact and deception.

The only things needed for dual membership should be: Give MC another skill/spell. Give the MC some better spell casting NPCs and some named ones (like exile yvette/quentin/baltus/ect). Don't let MCers join any other group. Create a 'tb' channel for Tribunals. Cabal spells made to be invisably cast.

Let it be up to the player and groups to keep it secret. If someone messes it up then the punishments/consequences would be dealt with accordingly.

As for the MC skill that would likely be discussed in their forum. I would say give them legion commander again. It would stack with leadership and allow two body-guards.

...I am totally against disbanding cabals or splitting up the MC.

Long before bards were made a class, there were players that made characters that were bards. Does this mean that the bard class should not have been implemented? Of course it doesn’t. Just because something can be done one way doesn’t mean a different or improved way shouldn’t be followed. Your argument here has no relevance to the topic at hand, other then to further show that you aren’t in favor of cabals being secret for some reason.



Is your goal to buff the MC beyond all other combinations of cabal/tribunal membership? It sure seems like your goal is to twink the MC into superiority over all else with this suggestion. By putting the MC on par with all other cabals via the extra power and tribunals via the other casting NPCs, they are tactically equal on the surface. But they also get the added benefit of never having to worry about spies, their members only have to answer to one master, no one in it ever running into a conflict of interest, and the ability to keep everyone in line because they can never leave for another organization…but they wouldn’t have to choose loyalties anyways.



I agree with this, but it also doesn’t have any relevance on the changes suggested in making cabals secret. Even under those suggestions, the member or a leader can divulge that member’s identity, so it is up to them to keep it secret.



Who the hell said anything about disbanding cabals?



What is wrong with splitting the MC into two factions? Other then being opposed to change, I don’t see why someone would view this as a bad thing (under the light of dual membership that is).

Lei Kung

This robed [REDACTED] is stupid. -_-

Well the MC is currently superior to other cabals, they have immunity and body guards. The changes to give them more spell-casters and NPC guards would be to balance the fact that other cabal members would have access to their tribunals NPCs. If you split the MC this would have to be done anyway.

As for disbanding cabals there was talk of disbanding the fists. I still say screw that.

I am the type that looks for every possible way to take advantage of something. As for the secrecy things if they are put in I am sure they could be utilized to abuse the spirit of the game. I can see up sides but I can see down sides too...but I guess that is what you want with spies.

I know if the measures to hide member names were taken I would respond every time to someone that hid their name with 'I do not respect the opinions of un-named voices'. If I was a leader I'd also tarnish people using them without permission.

Thinking on it, I could see the robe idea or some varient put in if the leaders had the ability to grant permission to people the leader wants hidden from the rest of the cabal. Still abuseable though.

Just consider the MC to be a tribunal that has a few extra powers, and let them join another cabal as well.

If not, I for one would never even consider joining the MC. I imagine there are plenty of other people sitting at their desks thinking the same thing.

Yes if they were to be split then the added power and NPCs would be required, but they would also have all the problems other organizations have in dealing with dual membership. By not splitting you are granting all the strengths without any of the weaknesses.



You’re right, my fault. I’m a huge proponent of converting (I don’t view it as disbanding) the fist into a class. All I can say to this is, alright that is what you FEEL because you haven’t given any arguments on why it should be any other way. See ETA on a new class thread to see my opinion on why the Fist should be a class.



Abuse the spirit of the game huh? That sounds like a reason not to do it, but what does that really mean. To me that sounds like nothing more the flowery rhetoric. Besides, changes can be made to adjust for twinks, which has happened since the game started. Ultimately, I don’t think it is productive to let fear of abuse drive us, but it is productive to be wary of it and take proactive measures against it.



Well that means you don’t realize the power of anonymity. You can say all you want “I don’t respect un-named voices” and I would laugh at you for not seeing the power in the anonymity. Also, if you were a leader and punished your members for hiding themselves, you may as well tell your members to not use weapons. You would be hamstringing your own members, especially since you, as leader, would know who everyone is. So a member could be unknown or known based on what the member and the leader wants, it adds another level of RP to cabals.



Here I wonder if you are fully following the ideas put forth. Granted a player could hide his identity from the rest of the cabal, except for the leaders. Therefore, if the leader wanted every other member in the cabal to know said member’s identity, he could simply divulge it. The robe idea is to allow for inductions and other cabal activities so that identities aren’t revealed, but that isn’t required if the leaders do not wish for it to be used.

You keep speaking about abuse and again I say be wary but don’t let that fear hinder progress. More importantly, if you see abuse-able situations point them out. That way solutions can be created, rather then trying to intimidate by fear.

Lei Kung

Thanks for sharing your feelings with the group.

Now if you would like I encourage you to share some reasons for those feelings.

Lei Kung

I function better on reality then in theory. If the anonymity changes were put in, it would be then that I could best trouble shoot abusable aspects.

If we have dual membership...then groups will have far more members.

Could we finally have enough members per group to add the two new groups I've been evangilizing for six years now?

The Assassins Guild, Spider Assassins, Assasins of the Arachnid, Knights of the Serpent or whatever.

Still looking for the Ch'zzrym based Spider Assassins...

...these are all in the order learned, the first would be the ability they kept if tarnished/relic taken

Assassin Strike - skill - automatic

allows the assassin to strike once more with main hand weapon, like the extra attack sprites get. or a speed based varient of that idea.

Mark of the Asp - skill - automatic

a tattoo that grows in power with the wearer. irl there are tattoos made from cobra venom that snake charmers belive helps them become immune to the cobras bite. this skill would make the cabal immune to poison, plague, and toxic cloud* (* see below)

Spider Familiar - one time cast spell

summons a large sized snow spider that can bash/poison gets some attacks

Matrons Ward - held spell (self)

raises protection bonus of worn armor, so armor protects better against blows and increases general AC

Toxic Cloud - held spell (room)

places a cloud of toxins in a room that hampers others and not the assassins marked with the asp. it's effects would be limited to the room but they would be a penalty to STR, DEX, and CON or all stats. every few second the effect would try to put a poison on the victims...stacking up to five as usual

or replace 'Mark of the Asp' and 'Toxic Cloud' with...

Await - skill - syntax = await
await <target name>

Basically camoflague except the awaiting cannot move. If they move a room it goes away and they must wait a tick before awaiting again. They can however cast non-attack spells talk and what not while in it.

Assassinate - skill - automatic

an opening attack skill that can only be done while awaiting a specific target. given that it could be a very long time before your target shows the skills is qutie powerfull. most similar to cleave but can be done with any weapon. having backstab, cleave, or ambush trained and using those weapons appropriate to those skills with raise damage and increase to critical. critical hit scored = insta kill, thought it would be rare without the other skills

Their relic would be 'The Iron Fist of Betrayl' or some such and be for worn on the hands. I don't think any cabal has a relic that is worn there. Their HQ could be in a cave near the grate.


and

The Triumverant of the Deep Realms

Three leaders would be needed one to represent Ch'zzrym and the Matron Houses, one to represent Craeftilian and the Gnomish Merchants, and one to represent whatever the dwarf city is called the the Dwarven Clans.