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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Turon wrote:
Adding in a heavy failure chance to a skill that has instant-killing capability is NOT a good way to balance things.


So to balance things is to make the instant kill skill far easier to land? Did I read this right? Cause that's not balanced, that's just plain stupid.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:50 pm 
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No, the skill should be fixed so that it either has countermeasures or is less powerful as a whole.

Let's say, for example, that 10 acid blasts kill the average character. If instead, acid blast did zero damage but had a 10% chance to slay the character outright, it would be imbalanced and stupid.

In the same way, if backstab is really so powerful as everyone is claiming, then just adding in a failure chance doesn't balance things: It just makes things extremely annoying and stupid.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Turon wrote:
No, the skill should be fixed so that it either has countermeasures or is less powerful as a whole.

Let's say, for example, that 10 acid blasts kill the average character. If instead, acid blast did zero damage but had a 10% chance to slay the character outright, it would be imbalanced and stupid.

In the same way, if backstab is really so powerful as everyone is claiming, then just adding in a failure chance doesn't balance things: It just makes things extremely annoying and stupid.


Hear, hear.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Wait, so you are saying that a class that is a high dpr class, should be nerfed and yet other similar classes has the one shot kill skills/spells?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:38 pm 
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What about taking scrolls from Rogues and making them strictly melee instead of having access to etherealform and a plethora of other spells? If backstab is that powerful, I don't think they'd need the assistance of scrolls to kill everything. Of course, this would give any spell caster with access to etherealform (practically all of them through some sort of device) a bit of safety and really only unprepared ones could be killed. If they have backstab, why do they need things like triple FoD scrolls?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:59 pm 
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rogues are fine, there are enough ways to sidestep them to avoid most of their attacks.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:16 am 
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Who's getting backstabbed into submission every single time they log on? Spell casters have etherealform, charms, animates, elementals and the like. Everyone else has pets. If you fear a backstab, then prevent it. Oh, you were beaten even though you took steps to prevent it? Well, I guess the other person prepared as well, and apparently better than you did. Rogues basically suck for anything but concept EXCEPT for that skill. Taking it away, or nerfing it is a bad idea. Making grandmaster isn't easy for everyone, and someone who levels a rogue to GM and takes the time to prepare and carefully execute a plan deserves a chance at the one shot kill on other GMs. They are assassins after all. They plot, and plan, and scheme, and prepare in advance. Then they remove the life from the target with mechanical precision and efficiency. I mean, are RL snipers supposed to shoot you with a bean bag from half a mile and then run to you and engage in hand-to-hand battle for a few minutes to make it fair? It's war baby, life and death. I mean they make MUDs that dont allow PK if meeting Achernar every once in awhile is such a big problem. Instead of nerfing skills, maybe ppl could try not pissing other characters off. I bet that rogue wouldn't try to kill you if you hadn't keeled one of his buddies. And besides, I'm sure whoever coded the Shores of Death didn't do it so no one would ever see it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:53 am 
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fourtimefelon wrote:
someone who levels a rogue to GM and takes the time to prepare and carefully execute a plan deserves a chance at the one shot kill on other GMs.


Then all classes deserve a one shot kill ability to make things balanced. I know Bards would love such an ability that grants them the same chance to one shot someone if prepped and executed properly.

Though I so much enjoy everyone listing the ways to "sidestep" rogues, that's if you wish to live in constant paranoia every time you log on, what another treat the class gets over others.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:03 am 
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My rogue is in a constant state of paranoia everytime I log him on.. Cause guess what, I as a rogue, usually have many things every other rogue wants.. And I really have no defense against it! Oh my god!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:42 am 
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Seriously.. A rogue against:

Another rogue aggressor - Possible win with a lot of luck/if they're stupid.. survived several backstabs in rogue vs rogue fights myself..
Mage aggressor - 2nd row between reaching charm and pet.. can't win
Scout aggressor - Front with battle spear and tame behind.. can't win
Necro aggressor - ..uh
Shaman aggressor - Can't win if they're prepared.
Priest aggressor - Possible win if they're stupid.
Barb aggressor - Need the best luck in the world.. if they're smart.
Merc aggressor - Need.. a lot of luck if they're smart.
Paladin aggressor - Reaching, flying mount, chances are very slim.
Hellion aggressor - Probably can't win unless cleave is missed/avoided.
Bard aggressor - Can't win if they're smart.
Warlock aggressor - Well, a decent rogue should be able to kill a warlock anytime unfortunately.

Now I'm not saying the rogue will be dead for certain in every case, but against any prepared class with the exception of the warlock, they most likely will be forced to gtfo.

I really shouldn't say "can't" win because I'm sure with luck some strong petrify or fod scrolls and some luck it's definitely feasible. But you guys already made an equally strong argument as to how useless those spells really are.

All in all unless a rogue gets lucky, every class should be able to take one out if they take the time to prepare and plan.

Anyway this is what keeps most rogues in check, if you're so worried about a rogue it's your own fear that puts you under their thumb. You likely could kill them if you had the balls or brains to try it.


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