Shattered Kingdoms

While it isn't my place to critique anyone's RP or tactics here, I will say this:

In a perfect world, many of the advantages the FotWS potentially enjoy would be tempered utility-wise by the group's traditionally-restrictive RP, their conceptual 'distance' from the political concerns of the world at large. I don't recall anyone bothering to complain about this skillset back when some of our more PK-happy players were still treating the idea of the cabal as an irrelevant joke for this reason.

The fact that a sorceror went to meele combat is something you should be so happy about beyond measure. The exact same tactic kicks a sorceror in melee as a Fist in melee. O all bash.

The only place where the old bash tactic fails is in group combat if you cant use a new tactic against Fists in group combat what makes you think you will do any better against a group of barbs or mercs.

As for eight attacks you need a high level Haste spell last I checked cant get it from a potion need a caster.

As for a sorceror dropping you in melee combat in 2-3 rounds. Which I would say was at least three rounds at least because it would take one round to fire up their skill. If you attacked then would have to be in response to your attack. If they attacked then they have lag from kill command (both of which where a chance for you to have them bashed). Even so c pet most likely would have been quicker. Dont forget a sorceror/priest using fist skills in no way stops quaff heal.

The problem is as simple as learning to deal with the threats. Fist skills have not been in their updated form for very long and use in PKs is limited due to RP for most. So people have not built tactics to beat them. Back before the Fist changes I was told time and time again you just need tactics to use the Fist skills good and this was disproved player after player. You could use Fist skills to get a kill but you where better off just using a weapon. What is the point of Fist unarmed skills if you are better off using something different in all situations. Im all for removing their haste ability completely if you can use their other abilities while using a weapon and giving them something useful outside of combat till they get something useful out of combat they should be exactly what you people are complaining about melee kings.
Sure 8 attacks while GM hasted might be a little powerful but dropping the non hasted attacks will make the skills less useful unless fully buffed. You only need to drop the hasted number attacks from 8 to 7 one extra from haste.

Great roleplay, whether individually or as a cabal, is not justification for overpowered abilities. Even if the FIST roleplayed as pacifist monks that rarely engaged in pkill, their skill set would still need to balanced.

your finny's right kids...

That's not true. I seem to recall the old haste not stacking with a certain cabal skill that the fists have available to them. Non-Fist PCs used to be given the additional 2 attacks over Fist PCs. I think the change to haste was just an oversight on Dulrik's part. He now has the chance to rectify that. Also, a certain Fist cabal skill didn't work so great for all of the classes out there. My paladin only had the capability to get up to 4 attacks in total, while classes like the mercenary could get 6.



People have been QQing about the number of undead that necromancers can produce. But honestly necromancers are not the end all, be all class. I don't even understand what relevance that a "potential to be absolutely unkillable" has. The original argument was crying about giants in the Fist, which I believe to be ridiculous. The only problem is that I believe that nothing should get over six attacks. Fists got up to six attacks before that and were limited to six attacks, until the change to the haste spell where they incidentally gained the ability to reap an additional two attacks.

But there's also no needed to go through all of these silly suggestions that a lot of players are suggesting. Personally, I don't believe that the Fists are overpowered. But I do think that the skill set could use a tiny bit of adjustment. Overall, it'll be a tiny affect that isn't going to hugely nerf the cabal. Just look at the benefits that you already get, a free GM level weapon if you bother to level yourself that high.



If the average player could deal with most anything then they wouldn't be average.

Here is the thing though, you're calling it an unfair advantage when I think it is just an advantage.

Should we disallow grey aura warlocks in Midnight due to their ability to attack with pretty much zero threat of retaliation?

Should we get rid of mimic because it takes away all tribunals ability to effectively police their city against Harlies?

Here is the key point I'm trying to illustrate, and a point I seem to be having an issue making. Every single one of the Fist abilities is focused at a single point. There really isn't going to be a variety in what you see from them, so every time you go up against them you ARE going to see that "powerful cabal ability" which is actually 3/5 of their skillset.

To make it very concise, lowering the Fist to 6 attacks wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to happen. However, they should be compensated in some way to make up for the loss of power. Take the power of those 2 attacks off, and give them a more utilitarian ability. That or as I said before, simply give the other cabals a slight/moderate buff.

It isn't the overall power of their skill set that is at issue here, it's that every bit of their power is focused on a single point like a shaped charge. It's either going to penetrate completely, or dissipate harmlessly. That's the way it is now, and the way it'll be after a nerfing down to 6 attacks except it'll penetrate much less often.

If you think a particular cabal ability is too powerful, make a thread and provide your reasoning as to why. As evidenced by this thread, Dulrik reads the forums and he is open to making reasonable changes.

By your comments in this thread, it is fairly obvious you have a character in the FotWS, which is clouding your judgment and biasing your opinion.

And by that comment, you've proven you lost your ability to have any real insight a long time ago.

Care to make any other assumptions Kreskin, or is one swing and a miss enough? I don't have a character in the Fist.

"The fact that a sorceror went to meele combat is something you should be so happy about beyond measure. The exact same tactic kicks a sorceror in melee as a Fist in melee. O all bash. "


last time I checked, only barbs and mercs can bash.

Other classes have to have pets, which I didn't at the time.

Don't forget that even if you did, the Fist member could have removed it from the room.