Shattered Kingdoms

The fact that cancellation has been brought up so many times as the reason that control undead is completely unusable makes me think where the sorc whine thread is? Oh wait, there isn't any. If sorcs can live with charm person, necros should -definately- be able to cope with the control undead spell which requires less concentration.

QFT



Whinners, hmmm... you're surely looking at the wrong direction but still in the correct thread.

If something is fundimentally wrong PK/RP-wise it should be changed.
In any case, this is such a waste of words and time...

Cyia all and Cheers.-

Since undeads take concentration, They should loose the time limit...
Since necros took a hit with limited undead, Let the corpses keep there level...

Incase they fight and need to rebuild a army really fast... Why make them go search for a new level 50 kill him and do what he does... I mean since we are nerfing them might as well help trim some of there down time (rebuilding army)...

While I do like -part- of the nerf on the undead, I feel that overall, all it does is make this class more and more less playable. What's happening now is that more and more mechanics are being forced into playing a necromancer, which I mean, if perfectly fine, but will undoubtedly create a much larger gap between newbies trying out this class and elitists playing this class.

The class itself is already a difficult class to play. It is not hard for a group of lighties to take down a necro. The spell is "holy word". You can use it to take down any necromancer, and with the vast amounts of characters in this game with that capability is proof on its own. Sure, you saw some amazing necromancers were just seemed too buff, but look at the player behind that necromancer. I'm assuming that player was a veteran, who knew the mechanics, and in all honestly, did not matter what class they were playing because the character would have been elite no matter what.

The problems a necromancer has to face:

RPly, they are the most reviled people in the world. While the dark side is currently showing a force in the game, the fact of the matter is that there are still more lighties populating the realms then darkies. So, continual hatred and bashing. Necros have to ALWAYS be prepared to be hunted and when dead, know that they'll probably be jlooted and will need to find a darkie priest, because no one else will rezz them.

Cancellation. Holy word. Taunt. Bolt of Glory. Its enough to take down any necromancer.

The necromancer himself isn't a buff tank. They can't take many hits, all they have to rely on is their undead. So here's what I think should have been done. Concentration on undead, however little it is, will still be easily taken out by HW, cancellation, or even a taunt. It all depends on which race the necromancer is. There should instead be a cap on the amount of undead a necromancer is allowed to have. Ten is the most a necromancer should have in my opinion.

If you don't want to put a cap and keep concentration, then the time an undead has to live either needs to be greater OR there should be no time at all. Lowering the concentration of a controlled undead isn't going to increase the use of them. Its suicide to use one of those things and honestly, they should be as Im2old4u said, for exploration or rp.

The next argument is the necromancer's spell set. Yes, its a great spell set. Yes, it could potentially own anything. However, with the increase in enchanted gear worn by just about EVERYONE, there's less of a chance for even a 14 art necromancer to land a lot of his spells, so again, you see more necros using undead in their groups for killing than their own spells.

I'm not quite sure what the point of the necromancer class is anymore. I mean, does anyone want people playing this class? Is there a use for this class? All I ever see is complaints about the necromancer's overpowering abilities because a veteran player who knows mechanics is playing or utilizing the class, a nerf, more complains, and more nerfs. If the balancing act is griffon and necromancer, then thats a terrible balance. But thats a completely different argument all together.

I didn't read the rest of your post after you failed to distinguish two words from one.

While I like the fact there there is not max to how many undead you can get, (save for time and mana) I think that problem here in lies the fact that a necro can solo Guardians.

Reguardless of the fact that I do not like CRS but necros have WAY to much power when it comes to this. The fact that one person has the ability to take relics is to much and something ought to be done about that.

In all other matter if a necro wants to make 20+ to just rape the realm, I would not want to take away that power from them. That is what makes them fun to play.

If Necros are so awesome, why hasn't everyone and their mother rolled one?

in order for necros to be awesome you need to know the game fairly well and be willing to take the time to do it right...

people are just to impatiant or dont know the game well enough...

Because you make them look bad.

Really, really bad.

The problem with the necro class is when someone is patient enough to sit around and make a huge army, its not that its an overpowered class. Necros are not pr say, more powerful than any other class, but they have the possibility to prepare for a long time, then becoming a great solo power.

When it comes to cabal raids I think necros are not THAT great a force to have, its overrated. Surely we took back the adept relic with just two necros, but consider the amount of time that went into creating the force needed. I think its only fair that a class like necromancer is that powerful if 8 players spend 8 hours preparing.

To me it seems that these days people are more concerned about wimping their enemy’s classes than just learning how to fight them properly. The power balance always shifts between classes, and its an unfortunate tendency to see that the way people handle it is pushing for a whimp.

Over the last year or so I would say that necromancers have already gotten Considerable whimps: BoG is quite potent against most necromancers, or at least their undeads which you will mostly drop in one BoG. Holy word was great against necros even before the cast time was reduced to a single round. Taunt change make necros drop their controls (and now animates as well), besides forcing them to duke it out against a lightie group, and lose a big portion of int. Summoning change made it harder to summon kill people, although a good change.

On the subject of sorcerers contra necros I agree. In straight up prepared pk with ample time to consider your actions and prepare protection spells (from deviced) the necro will always win. But then again, the sorcerer class than the necro class have different spellsets, and in my opinion, the sorc is more a utility class than a straight pk class. While not designed as a pk class, many players over the years have played great sorcerers, able to hold their own against necromancers with creative spell use, player skill and devices.

As a necromancer, not a lot can straight up kill you, but quite a lot can mess up your preparation and force you away, and I guess that really the balance for counter-necro classes. For the sake of argument, I will give some examples from my own experience:

Heldorian tribute:
Sorcerors (alone with autofollow) with great willpowersaves coming in ethereal and dispelling your undeads: While it doesn’t kill you, it does damage your undeads a lot, dispel is a fast cast spell and 95% of them will dispel an animate.

Cilek tribute:
Scouts without pets who camo and ambush you: Its quite devastating, and a well played scout can keep you away from an area for quite a while. Etherealform prevents you from taking damage, but he can just wait it out or kill your animates.

Someones bard tribute:
Bards singing baug6 chords: deafening undeads, going ethereal and persuading you to release your control: Creative usage of a not so powered class, sorry I forgot your name.

Three_sixteen's(I think) warlock tribute:
Player skill combined with fast fireballs: Even though warlocks are (straight up) the easiest kill for a necro, at range they are really powerful. Fireballs are fast to cast and really hurt your group.

Numerous paladins:
BoG necro: While this was a while ago, I do remember it being quite the necrokilling spell, today you can always just cast a HW instead since the cast time is lowered.

Heldorian (again) with dispel stave:
Any class brandishing a dispel stave: I always wondered why I only encountered such a tactic once or twice, its roughly the same power as a holy word (since it drops animates).

Tribute to all the brave rogues who defied the odds of mass undeads and typed in "e;follow nizzkori;backstab delf":
This doesn’t actually mess up the group, as it actually just kills the necromancers, dropping all the animates.

Frollith tribute:
Priest with sanced pet, following someone and spamming HW: Its a great tactic, while it did require that one person to lead the group, im sure it can be done solo without any problem today, and naked too.

And shamans with voodoo. I wonder if its still possible to cast those two voodoos at the same person, at the same time?

While the above might not be the perfect counters to a necro, they are quite good counters if played correctly. The problem right now with the necro class is that people are not willing to spend effort to learn how to kill them properly, in most cases, the better player comes out on top.