Shattered Kingdoms

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Should there be a change?
Yes, addition only. 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Yes, both. 67%  67%  [ 20 ]
Yes, subtraction only. 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
No. Leave it. 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 30
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Lucius wrote:
TheCannibal wrote:
I saw that all the time with a landy. I was the one doing it. No one complained then.

Hell, I took a fully armored and spelled up fist shaman to that with a landy.

What's your point really?

What? You want a cookie or something? :P

My real point is this:

1. Big slow Pole-axes hit harder, thus raising the Hellion initial cleave average. A cleave average (as you have pointed out) that is already deadly.

2. Many spell casters do not have good dex. That makes them easier to hit with big slow weapons.

3. Because spell casters don't have high dex, and the hellion cleave average just went up, it makes it more likely that the spell caster class will die to a hellion foe. I think that it changes the already well balanced game mechanics that is already very deadly to low HP characters. I think we may see spell casters participating even less, only being present in large Gank squads- which of course affects the balance in another way.

4. Yeah, I know that with preparation any class can be bad [REDACTED]. Sure. But who holds high level spells up all the time? Sorcs don't walk around mirrored imaged or etherial all the time, Shamans are not that phylically tuff, Priests don't hold sanc up 24/7, warlocks have mage HP, and Necros would only be well off at higher levels with bigger undead, and with alot of annoying preparation.

Hellions just gotta type "cleave Slayne".



What land do you live in? All spellcasters have always used these spells religiously. I don't know many warlocks that don't have all detects up and their elemental. And elemental vs pole-axe switch time warlock wins. Sorcs that I've seen not in groups are ethformed or have charmies. All priests I know not in big groups also put sanc up. And last time I checked shaman were a tank class. And all but warlock have access to armor. I won't even talk about necros because they die to a single bolt of glory usually and have armies when they need it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Yes, so once again for the huge number of newbies in this thread:

The issue is not whether pole-axes becoming a cleave weapon is a large buff, the issue is that immortals should consider the consequences of changes before they make them. Whether or not pole-axes are a good weapon is obviously debatable.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:44 pm 
Malhavoc wrote:
4. Yeah, I know that with preparation any class can be bad [REDACTED]. Sure. But who holds high level spells up all the time? Sorcs don't walk around mirrored imaged or etherial all the time, Shamans are not that phylically tuff, Priests don't hold sanc up 24/7, warlocks have mage HP, and Necros would only be well off at higher levels with bigger undead, and with alot of annoying preparation.


I have to disagree with this. When I played mages (which were few and far between) I always had mirror image up, and often was ethereal and invisible and hiding as well. If I played a warlock, stone skin was always up, and I always had an elemental (and a pet. Today, this might be replaced with a summonable snow spider or a tribunal guard). The only real way for a relatively careful shaman to be killed is by a lucky critical cleave, at which point the damage of a pole-axe is irrelevant. Ditto with priests.

Necromancers I can't talk about, because they always struck me as singularly annoying to play.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:48 pm 
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Gilgon wrote:
Yes, so once again for the huge number of newbies in this thread:

The issue is not whether pole-axes becoming a cleave weapon is a large buff, the issue is that immortals should consider the consequences of changes before they make them. Whether or not pole-axes are a good weapon is obviously debatable.


The average damage of a pole-axe is not going to be that much more than the average damage of any other weapon.

Every weapon has a range of damage that it is going to do. Sometimes a landsknecht can do more damage than a pole-axe. You're not going to be hitting a consistent amount of damage with every hit.

You're oversensationalizing it as well. The last cleave I took, which was quite a while ago probably didn't even do more than 15% of my total hpz in damage. There were also battles where I'd eat 2 or 3 cleaves and not even drop under 60%.

This isn't even a staggering change or anything to worry about. Most experienced players aren't going to worry about the extra 20 hpz worth of damage that you did to them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Gilgon wrote:
Yes, so once again for the huge number of newbies in this thread:

The issue is not whether pole-axes becoming a cleave weapon is a large buff, the issue is that immortals should consider the consequences of changes before they make them. Whether or not pole-axes are a good weapon is obviously debatable.

And I did consider it. I compared it to other weapons that could already cleave. The landsknecht has reach and is much more accurate. The great axe does not have reach but does more damage and is also much more accurate. It seemed balanced enough from the numbers in addition to also making common sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:17 pm 
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Cyra wrote:
Gilgon wrote:
Yes, so once again for the huge number of newbies in this thread:

The issue is not whether pole-axes becoming a cleave weapon is a large buff, the issue is that immortals should consider the consequences of changes before they make them. Whether or not pole-axes are a good weapon is obviously debatable.


The average damage of a pole-axe is not going to be that much more than the average damage of any other weapon.

Every weapon has a range of damage that it is going to do. Sometimes a landsknecht can do more damage than a pole-axe. You're not going to be hitting a consistent amount of damage with every hit.

You're oversensationalizing it as well. The last cleave I took, which was quite a while ago probably didn't even do more than 15% of my total hpz in damage. There were also battles where I'd eat 2 or 3 cleaves and not even drop under 60%.

This isn't even a staggering change or anything to worry about. Most experienced players aren't going to worry about the extra 20 hpz worth of damage that you did to them.


Yes, thank you for proving the point that, as I said above, 'whether or not poleaxes are a good weapon is obviously debatable.'


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:41 pm 
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I don't even know wtf you are saying.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Hes saying you suck! That his hellion is going to kick your elf [REDACTED]! :cry:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:20 pm 
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I stopped reading most of the posts after mine. Just want to point out that even if pole axe hurts more, it hits less, meaning more times where you will escape having taken 0 damage. Trust me, this isnt a really big deal.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:07 am 
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I have to say that I agree completely with Algon. And it's good to hear that it was considered before it was changed, I likes it! Other than that, I'd always thought that pole-axes could cleave, so not much of a mental change for me:)


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