Shattered Kingdoms

It was never my intent to try to outheal circle stab. I know how much damage it does and it is simply pointless to even try that.

I guess for a guy that prides himself on being right, you just don't have a clue about anything.

No, I can just do simple math. Circle stab takes about 1 and a third rounds to use, and quaffing potions takes a bit more than half a round: I'm guessing the ratio is somewhere around slightly less than 2 heal potions per circle stab, if both are all out spamming.

If a circle does 63% to you, and a quaff heal heals you for 32%, then if circle stab is nerfed quaffing heal vials through circle stabs will be much more viable for not only you, but anyone facing a rogue: Especially if sanctuary and protection is factored in.



It's also got to be rather embarassing for a guy who "doesn't have a clue about anything" to disprove you like 10,000 times in a single thread. I'm not counting but I'm pretty sure I've proved you wrong at least that many times here.

And if the mana cost for persuade was lowered by 50%, I think we may be headed in the right direction.

I had protection up, Turon, but most anybody that makes a rogue makes them grey aura so that their damage isn't nerfed at all.

Also, people with sanctuary up have been rawkilled with backstab. People with good hps. It's just that powerful.

And then trying to say that my intent is to outheal backstab by quaffing heal potions is nothing more than taking my original intent of nerfing the damage of backstab to make a more competitive playing field, using them in a different context and then saying that you've defeated my point. I'm pretty sure there's a phrase for that and it's on the tip of my tongue but I just can't think of what it is.

Your argument basically breaks down to: I have a massive damage attack that should ensure victory in all cases, no matter what, and nobody should be able to do anything other than flee from it or die. Nobody should be able to live through circle stab! If this isn't true than the rogue class is trash and nobody will take them seriously!

It's a narrow-minded viewpoint of a second rate PKer that only sees one dimension into a class. Much like fighter classes of early RPGs that could only do two things, tank with their massive hps and deal damage that is what the rogue class has been reduced to here. Nobody is willing to think outside of the box with the class because of the raw potential of one skill. And it is a class that has massive potential to begin with. It's not my fault that the entirety of the pbase thinks that the class is a joke without the backstab skill being completely overpowering to the point of crippling actual tactics in the same vein that charm person is still overpowering.

By the way, forcing someone to quaff nothing but heal vials is a valid tactic, but I wouldn't expect you to understand the value of it.

I beg to differ.. the majority of the PK's I've had on Zellidon were in a defensive manner. Of course I've had many PK's where I outright backstabbed someone. But Zellidon has his hp at a maximum, and has defeated plenty of barbarians and mercs without using backstab at all. Tagg, Qualy, Brock, Ruaj, Tukir (barb tames behind them) a few to name off hand.

I don't really brag, post logs of me teabagging my opponents to humiliate them. You look at logs where rogues humiliate their foes and figure that's all that goes on in PK involving that certain class..

I don't post the majority of my logs either.

If you all think rogues are one-trick ponies and wimping their damage output would considerably wimp them..

Meh.. I don't care enough to be bothered.

SK is going to have horribly imbalanced classes no matter what I say.

Oh look, since I've proved Ardith wrong in everything that he's said, he's now just started arguing against things that I haven't said.

I never argued otherwise. I did, however, state that there are plenty of ways to avoid backstab completely. Keep your pulse racing or keep something behind you.


I said that your proposed change would allow anyone to outheal circle stab, not backstab. How do you outheal an instant one-shot skill? That makes no sense.



Actually, my argument is that backstab can be avoided by someone who knows a rogue is coming, and there are other ways to stop a rogue from killing you with circle stab besides quaffing heal potions. (Which even now isn't too terrible of an idea) Use a reach weapon to hit and trip the rogue, dirt kick the rogue, sleep the rogue, blind the rogue, charm the rogue, petrify the rogue, put a pet behind you, intimidate him, kill whatever is in front of him and bash him, fear him, etc.

I do really appreciate how you put words in my mouth and THEN refuted them, though. Let's see...

I have a phrase for it! Ardithisms.


As for your last point: No one -needs- to think outside the box because apparently people still haven't figured out how to deal with backstab. Why would a rogue go around tripping/disarming with whips or using scrolls when he can just kill his unsuspecting enemies with backstab? There's no reason to stop using a tactic when people still haven't figured out how to counter it.

Nerf sorcs, take away mirror image.

out of curiosity, how does one go about keeping their pulse racing the entire time they are logged on?

Certain classes also only get access to one pet that they can use to avoid getting backstabbed. However by placing the pet in the rear they no longer have a meat shield in front to protect from a bash or none-reach melee attacks. For Priests and Bards that can be a serious problem.

Sorc's can go ethereal, but Rogues have access to scrolls and can go the same route.

But back to the point, Instant Kill skills need removed or nerfed. There is no strategy to it and just falls to abuse, much like Voodoo.