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 Post subject: Diversifying armor and weapon selection
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:28 am 
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SK Character: Salak
I was thinking about the under-use of many of the weapon types on SK, and I was starting to realize that the reason so many go unused is because there isn't a need to diversify a person's arsenal in a general sense.

Everyone picks a weapon based on what they can hit with the most and do the most damage. The armor the other person is wearing isn't a factor at all in how a person picks their weapon; only accuracy and damage matter for the most part. I've gathered this from reading various discussions on weapons and such in the game.

While I understand that there are many weapon sub-types under-represented in the game and this may contribute to the under-use of some of them, I think the problem extends beyond that. It's simpler than that. There isn't a need for most warriors using these weapons to use more than a handful of the more elite weapons. Very rarely do people pick piercing, blunt, or slashing weapons because of who they are attacking. Afterall, only halflings and sprites (maybe gnomes?) suffer from any sort of damage-type vulnerability...to blunt weapons in this case.

Would it be convievable that if SK developed its armor in such a way that each piece of armor had a sub-type or class that determines it's base defense against certain damage types, that players might start to diversify their weapon selections and make use of some of the lesser used weapon types?

I know that builders have the option to do so now currently, but it isn't anything enforced by areacheck requirements. I know all armor on SK is given a protection rating based on it's material, and that almost every builder in the history of SK maxes those protection values. I also know that light and heavy armor types have differences when damage is calculated and dealt to the person wearing them.

I'm convinced now after thinking about this for a few days that doing something to this nature might introduce a new level of thought in PK tactics, both for warriors AND spell casters. Most people might consider this a wimp to warriors if it was implemented, but I have a feeling it would benefit them in the sense that they would have options to cut through undead/sorc charms/controls/animates faster depending on the type of armor you'd expect to see on them, or help in the planning of how you'd kill certain mobiles.

Discuss.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:51 am 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 8:16 am
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
SK Character: Achernar
This type of code change was on my Christmas wish list. I hope Dulrik gets us an armor subtype system! Maybe even shields too! It would make for an interesting 2007 for SK.

A


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:00 pm
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SK Character: Salak
HUA


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:27 am 
Salak wrote:
HUA


As long as heavy armor is always superior is to light is always superior to cloth then I'm down for this.

I wouldn't mind seeing differences in the types of armor you can wear for the fact that I promise you a mercenary and a hellion wouldn't wear the same suit of armor if this game made sense. Nor would a swashbuckler and a rogue -- but they do currently!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:28 am 
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SK Character: Salak
Grakus wrote:
As long as heavy armor is always superior is to light is always superior to cloth then I'm down for this.


That should go without saying, but you never know.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:02 am
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Location: Over the hills and far away.
SK Character: Elriorith/Enfaustina/Nimolthar
I agree it would make a nice addition.

I also see every leet player hoarding/stashing one of each type of armor.. :-?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:22 pm 
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IM(H)O, classes should maybe do better in some types of armor than others. For instance, Rogues should be best in leather, whereas Swashies should go mithril, and Scouts would probably do best in a mix, etc.

This [your] idea's awesome.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:01 pm 
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For a long time I’ve wanted an armor sub-type system as well. To me the idea of material type being the determining factor in what armor one could wear is a bit flawed. After all the idea of a rogue running around in full plate mail just because it is made of bronze is absurd. Granted the weight might be fine but the restrictiveness of the style of armor should prevent the rogue from using most of his skills effectively. So I will toss out an idea. Hopefully this will get you thinking and maybe help refine such a system or develop one yourself.

I think the armor system should have a two prong approach. Any piece of armor would have two factors: material type and armor design. Each aspect would affect certain aspects while other aspects are controlled by how the two are combined.

Material type would control weight, durability, and absorption (see below). Armor design would control restrictiveness (see below) and deflection (again see below). An example of how the two combined would be class restriction. Take the weight (defined by material type) compared to character’s strength, then compare dexterity to restriction score (defined by armor design), the resulting values are added together and compared to the class parameters, defining the affect on the character’s skills. A bard, with sufficient strength and dexterity, could dance (use all skills) in adamantite light chain mail (this assumes more then one type of chain mail) or wooden plate mail, but not in heavier plate mail or more restrictive adamantite.

Let’s cover the definitions and affects of the aspects controlled by material type. Weight’s definition is obvious, although its impact will be farther reaching. The greater the weight the greater the impact it will have on PE. This will be lessened by the constitution/strength and class of the character. Durability’s definition is also obvious and is unchanged from the way its currently used. Absorption is the material’s ability to absorb incoming blows. Once a blow has been determined to be a hit, the material type will then affect the amount of damage the character suffers.

Now we shall cover the definitions and affects of the aspects controlled by armor design. Restrictiveness is the impact the armor design has on a character’s freedom of movement, a shin guard will limit a character very slightly compared to a full plate legging. The greater the restrictiveness the greater the impact on to hit roles for melee and success roles for spells. This will be tempered by dexterity and class of the character. Deflection is the ability of the armor to negate what would otherwise be a successful strike, armor class in other words. The deflection score would differ depending on the type of weapon it is deflecting. Currently, armor class is broken into slashing, piercing, and blunt. This would not have to change but it could be made more detailed by allowing certain weapon sub-types to be more effective against certain armor designs.

Because the different striking methods already exist, one might ask why does having armor design change anything? Even though there are different strike methods, there is no way for the attacker to know which strike method would be most effective, unless they happen to know that specific armor (complicate that by having seven different pieces). With armor design an attacker could simply look at someone and see they are wearing chain mail, therefore they want to use a piercing weapon. All deflection values would be set based on armor design and be true for all armor of that design regardless of level or material. Material type would then further protect based on absorption. The level of the piece of armor would then define what combination of armor design and material type it can be made of as well as how it can be enchanted.

Lei Kung


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:36 pm 
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I'm sort of luke warm on this idea. Have a question for those of you in favor of it, however.

Why should we think that putting something like this in place wouldn't just cause a lot more hoarding of both weapons and armor because people would try to get just the right combinations for just the right situation?

You'd probably have to put a lot more armor in the game if you wanted to keep things available in light of this kind of system.

Overall it's sort of interesting but, to be honest, I think the only real benefit is to spread out the type of weapons people use, which you could probably accomplish with a far less labor-intensive change to the game.

For example, just add more damage type weaknesses/ resistances to races or classes (simulating the way a rogue would wear their mithril armor compared to the way a swashbuckler would wear theirs).

My two cents


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:58 pm 
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Haha, wrong thread, Archie.


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