I would argue it differently and say that a necro still has the ability to reach, with either spells or by using a control.
6 fully equipped animates in melee range? Come on
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| Animate dead https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17473 |
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| Author: | Jardek [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Animate dead |
Make it so they can't wear equipment. Oh yeah, I went there. |
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| Author: | Gilgon [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Greatly diminishes the tactical application of the necro class and makes it unable to hit second row other than with a control. I think a better solution is to limit the # of animates someone can have to being only within their own group. No more than 8 animates (assuming you have no pet and nobody else in group), and you can never have more than 6 in melee range. Necromancers are too powerful of a class right now. The solution to this problem is not to just wimp the ways a necromancer can be played and the immense tactical application of giving pets different weapons, the solution should instead increase the number of tactical ways players use necromancer and just lower their overall firepower. Get rid of undead outside of groups and you will see necros balanced to a much more reasonable level that IMO still puts them as the top tier of pking char. |
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| Author: | Jardek [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would argue it differently and say that a necro still has the ability to reach, with either spells or by using a control. 6 fully equipped animates in melee range? Come on
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| Author: | Demon [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:25 pm ] |
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I wish necros were still about big controls and using their spells rather than 21 wraiths with polearms and no spells. |
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| Author: | Gilgon [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Jardek wrote: I would argue it differently and say that a necro still has the ability to reach, with either spells or by using a control.
6 fully equipped animates in melee range? Come on Necros would still maintain their weaknesses that get newer players insta-raped, such as being BoGable and holy word still raping undead groups. Any change as severe as removing the ability of undead to wear weapons is too large of a wimp to happen in one change. Code changes should be gradual changes to address balance concerns, not massive sweeping reconstructions of the mud. |
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| Author: | Jardek [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
What newbie is going to intuitively know that they should get six sets of gear for their animated army? Claiming that you're on the side of newbies is all very noble, but you and I both know whose interests you're trying to protect. |
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| Author: | Gilgon [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Jardek wrote: What newbie is going to intuitively know that they should get six sets of gear for their animated army? Claiming that you're on the side of newbies is all very noble, but you and I both know whose interests you're trying to protect.
You didn't read what I wrote. If necromancers are still able to give their undead weapons it won't remove the fact that necros are still instantly owned unless played by very competent players. To argue that I am protecting my own interests is [REDACTED] - if anything, this thread is evidence of me not protecting my own interests, you just have a weak grasp of game mechanics. I can break cabal guardians solo easily without arming my undead, I can't while arming only 6 of them. 20 undead without hunting spears is FAR, FAR stronger than 6 undead with weapons. I have a long history of working to get any overpowered abilities on the current characters I play weakened. The only way to get the attention of the immortal staff in this mud is to actively use a skill or spell to its full potential in order to get it wimped. Changing necromancers to be able to create undead only within their group will severely wimp them and change the way necromancers are played, but it's a necessary wimp. |
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| Author: | Jardek [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't care how convinced you are that wraiths are stronger unequipped than equipped, it's really quite irrelevant to me (although you can feel free to explain it - as I think I've said, you're always welcome to teach this old dog new tricks if you can). If you really like, I'll argue for a lesser amount of animates in addition. As for newbie necros getting owned, so what? Newbie anything gets owned. "Newbies won't equip their wraiths and that's bad for them because they'll get owned! But unequipped wraiths are better!" |
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| Author: | Gilgon [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Jardek wrote: I don't care how convinced you are that wraiths are stronger unequipped than equipped, it's really quite irrelevant to me. If you really like, I'll argue for a lesser amount of animates in addition.
As for newbie necros getting owned, so what? Newbie anything gets owned. I argued that 6 wraiths equipped are far weaker than 20 wraiths unequipped. You wrote that I had other "interests" to protect, and insinuated I was trying to argue for a lesser wimp of the necromancer class because I play one. You're a moron - I just argued for a larger overall wimp than you just did, but I don't want to just erase tactics for players to use. Instead, my proposed change increases the amount of tactics players use and would encourage necros to start using undead that cast spells and to focus less on controls. How much do necros need to be wimped? I think the best way to go about changing necromancers is to, once again, limit the amount of undead they are able to hold to being only within their group. I know that if this change were made I would only be keeping 5 animates with me at all times and my tactics would drastically change. With your initial post my tactics wouldn't change at all and I would maintain nearly the same power. And, furthermore, necros are the easiest class to get owned with in the game - 90% of this mud playing as necros would get insta-owned, whereas only about 70% of this mud playing as priests would be owned in the same fashion. |
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| Author: | Minette [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Wraiths are barbarians, when naked they still berserk, wild fighting still goes wild on most opponents. The number of animates were supposed to be limited to a manageable size when they begun to take up concentration. Obviously some players have found a way around this and still walk around with two dozens. Maybe in this scenario we need Dulrik to take a look at it. Regarding prowess of necromancer class, a great amount of animates aside, a few of them are parading around with low risk. The mottled rod from Ch'zzrym that grants ethereal form. Isn't it about time this item gets revised? Player scribed ethereal form is fine, which takes time to setup, but repeat-zappable ethereal form wand with good supply from a store while animates do the work... yeah. |
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