Shattered Kingdoms
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Spells, Scrolls, and Saves.
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=18529		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  WickedWitch [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Spells, Scrolls, and Saves.
There is a major problem somewhere.

Alright, so, a few days ago, my Sorc (only 6 art) was messing with Isra. I literally CAST charm person at her like at least 20 times. I eventually charmed her. Anyways, later that same day, she's wearing the exact same eq, and I recite a SINGLE charm scroll at her, and it lands.

Is there a problem with SKs number system, or what? I've noticed stuff like this a lot and with other things besides scrolls and charm.
Author:  Mehloncholy [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
There's an equal chance every time you cast, that it may land.

This is also the same reason someone may win the lotto the very first time they play. These things happen.
Author:  Muktar [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:50 am ]
Post subject: 
1 test after 20 doesn't say anything about the previous test. If you did 20 from a scroll and let's say half of them landed, then I would agree that it might need to be looked into.

Is it possible for a person to roll 2 1's in a row? If and only if, the odds is that they fail the save on a 1 out of 20, it is totally possible for this to happen. It is even possible for a person to roll 2 1's when rolling d100's. That is just luck, it happens.
Author:  BucketHeadWendi [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Are you sure the timing on this is correct? I didn't think you had charmed me since that time (which I'm assuming was in the graveyard). Also are you sure the eq was the same? I often adjust my jewelry for example.
Author:  fridgeraider [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:55 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree, you would have to do an equal amount of scrolls used versus the amount of tries casting the spell to give a fair comparison. You only have to be lucky on one roll to win a lotto, for some people that happens the first time, others never.
Author:  Mehloncholy [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Also, a test of two charm attempts isn't really a large enough sample to determine there is a problem. Try it a couple hundred times and see if there is a predictable pattern. Then try it another 50 times or so to test if your hypothesis on the pattern is correct. If something is really skewed at that point it may be worth looking into.

You may want to repeat this (or have multiple magi taking the quiz and comparing the answers too) Different answers could happen with different levels of mastery, different art, or depending on the target. For consistency sake, if you're going to do something like this, a mage should use the same unchanging target. Then if he wants further comparison, make a change, but then repeat the entire test.


1) % it lands.
2) Average of how many times it takes to land 1 after the last time

See what sort of patterns happen. If something looks amiss with 200 casts, and the trend continues, there may then be something worth reporting. 2 casts with opposite results is not conclusive. It was a known possibility, and it happened.
Author:  Gilgon [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, well, regardless of any an(ewb)alysis of the usefulness of charm person in this thread.....

OK, rewriting this because I made it sound complicated when it isn't:

Dulrik should remove all offensive staves/wands/scrolls from the game to decrease the gap between newb and veteran, to make pk more exciting, and to make SK more than just a reaction time mud. In the incredibly likely occasion that he decides not to do this, I recommend:

He put a limit of level 30 on all scrolls/staves/wands. Although Dulrik thinks that this is the sort of thing that builders should be handling, not the one coder: he is wrong. The builders have shown they are not responsible in eq creation, and that is why we have hour upon hour of our builders' time being spent on "fixing" overpowered eq. Just code in a level 30 limit, and you won't see the problem you are seeing now.
Author:  sleeper [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Gilgon wrote:
Dulrik should remove all offensive staves/wands/scrolls from the game to decrease the gap between newb and veteran, to make pk more exciting, and to make SK more than just a reaction time mud.


I haven't been PKing much lately, but the more I think about it, the more I think this might not be a bad idea...

sleeper
Author:  Ruska [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Speaking from more of a newb's standpoint, I think gilgon's suggestion is a good direction to go with regards to cutting back on the huge amounts of 'necessary' prep time, a better direction than enchanting. If veterans(twinks?, /tease) are concerned that it lowers the gap too much, I could see keeping in some of the unique/super rare overpowered stuff, but you'd still run into the problem of the best people being determined not by how good they are at reacting to the circumstances of a fight and choosing the right ability to use at the right time, but by whether they knew where to run after a reboot and how fast they could spam brandish.
Author:  Viltrax [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Gilgon wrote:
...that is why we have hour upon hour of our builders' time being spent on "fixing" overpowered eq. Just code in a level 30 limit, and you won't see the problem you are seeing now.


I don't think this is as big a problem as you're describing. It's a rare code change that requires the review of all objects of a certain type - we've only recently had the manpower in the pantheon to attempt such wide-ranging changes - however the odd object that breaches the builder guidelines is not an issue requiring "hour upon hour of our builders' time".

OMG U HAS the STAFFE OF IMMOLORATION!1111
:drunk:
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