Shattered Kingdoms :: View topic - Deep-elves, gnomes, and age.

You've got 25 WIS/INT. What more do you flipping want?

I personally don't consider having 25 INT or 25 WIS straight out of the creation halls as "getting the shaft." Have you ever played a 25 INT caster? It's obscene. Everyone else has to wait until they're about to topple over before they can even think about doing the crap that deep-elves can do straight out of the creation halls.

Well deep-elves can't add a point to int max and gnomes can't add a point to wis max. Nothing can go beyond 25. So I suggest that rather then punish these characters because they start with good stats, which are balanced out by racial weaknesses such as blunt vuln, vuln to poison, light vuln, and other things.

This stupid crap was exactly what I knew I would see when I made this thread. I specifically pointed out that the stats are balanced at creation. Gnomes have really high stats and lower then average stats in every other catagory. Deep-elves get a 25 int, some [REDACTED] magic, and then some lower stats and tough vulnerabilies. It's BALANCED TO START

Orac wrote:

Yes, I'm glad that despite all actual evidence to the contrary, you pointed out through EXCESSIVE CAPS that the stats of a deep-elf caster vs. a halfling/human/half-elf/centaur caster were balanced to start. Deep-elves are king casters since the 25 INT buff, period. They're not "getting punished" more on the age tick just because one of their stats didn't happen to increase in max, it's just a chance for all of the other poor saps who rolled different races to catch up just a little bit, even though they always know in the back of their mind that they'll never be able to hold as many spells as deep-elves, or ever have as much mana as gnomes. The fact that they don't increase in stat maxes with the one stat that's already at 25 just balances things out in the other races' favor.

Author:	Orac [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Deep-elves, gnomes, and age.
Hello, this is my second thread about aging. The first one had to do with warriors, it can probably still be found. This thread has to with gnomes and deep-elves getting shafted as they age. A deep-elf starts with 25 int max, a gnome with 25 wis max. As you age you loose one point from your str/dex/con max and you gain one point to your int/wis max. Right? Well deep-elves can't add a point to int max and gnomes can't add a point to wis max. Nothing can go beyond 25. So I suggest that rather then punish these characters because they start with good stats, which are balanced out by racial weaknesses such as blunt vuln, vuln to poison, light vuln, and other things. These two races should gain a max to their magical energy stat. If a deep-elf warlock can only train magical energy 6 times add a point to wis max and magical energy max when they age. I don't see why people, especially people so naturally magical the deep-elves are should suffer the affects of aging worse they anyone else. It doesn't seem fair to me that because you start off with ideal stats for a caster, which are balanced by lower stats elsewhere in some races, that you should loose out further on down the road.

Author:	Baldric [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:42 am ]
Post subject:
That's a good point. I never thought about that. Gnomes and deep-elves should get some other bonus from aging, to keep things balanced.

Author:	Turon [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:09 am ]
Post subject:
You've got 25 WIS/INT. What more do you flipping want? I personally don't consider having 25 INT or 25 WIS straight out of the creation halls as "getting the shaft." Have you ever played a 25 INT caster? It's obscene. Everyone else has to wait until they're about to topple over before they can even think about doing the crap that deep-elves can do straight out of the creation halls.

Author:	Orac [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:09 am ]
Post subject:
Turon wrote: You've got 25 WIS/INT. What more do you flipping want? I personally don't consider having 25 INT or 25 WIS straight out of the creation halls as "getting the shaft." Have you ever played a 25 INT caster? It's obscene. Everyone else has to wait until they're about to topple over before they can even think about doing the crap that deep-elves can do straight out of the creation halls. This stupid crap was exactly what I knew I would see when I made this thread. I specifically pointed out that the stats are balanced at creation. Gnomes have really high stats and lower then average stats in every other catagory. Deep-elves get a 25 int, some [REDACTED] magic, and then some lower stats and tough vulnerabilies. It's BALANCED TO START But I knew that because they have the ability to reach max in a specific stat someone would say that they aren't getting the shaft at all. Just because a deep-elf starts with 25 int, and a gnome starts with 25 wis doesn't make them so over powered that they have to punished in more ways then simply the starting weaknesses and lowered stats in other catagories. They shouldn't have to suffer for having something good about them forever. I don't have the strength, to say anything more. I went out of my way, to point out that they are not overpowered at the start because of those high stats. If they are then lower them at creation. Orac wrote: Well deep-elves can't add a point to int max and gnomes can't add a point to wis max. Nothing can go beyond 25. So I suggest that rather then punish these characters because they start with good stats, which are balanced out by racial weaknesses such as blunt vuln, vuln to poison, light vuln, and other things. By the way most people don't walk out of the halls of creation with 25. They have to put stat points to get that high which takes away from other things. I'm not saying that's a massive hadicap but you're making it sound like these races are getting some kind of massive bonus just because their maximums are at the limit. That's not the case.

Author:	Konge [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:13 am ]
Post subject:
Good idea, and one more mana train is definitely not going to get them to be overpowered.

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Author:	Achernar [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:45 am ]
Post subject:
I'd be alright with them getting a mana boost or even just a plain stat train for the aging. I don't really know that many people play characters long enough that this is going to be a high priority.

Author:	Turon [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:54 am ]
Post subject:
Orac wrote: This stupid crap was exactly what I knew I would see when I made this thread. I specifically pointed out that the stats are balanced at creation. Gnomes have really high stats and lower then average stats in every other catagory. Deep-elves get a 25 int, some [REDACTED] magic, and then some lower stats and tough vulnerabilies. It's BALANCED TO START Yes, I'm glad that despite all actual evidence to the contrary, you pointed out through EXCESSIVE CAPS that the stats of a deep-elf caster vs. a halfling/human/half-elf/centaur caster were balanced to start. Deep-elves are king casters since the 25 INT buff, period. They're not "getting punished" more on the age tick just because one of their stats didn't happen to increase in max, it's just a chance for all of the other poor saps who rolled different races to catch up just a little bit, even though they always know in the back of their mind that they'll never be able to hold as many spells as deep-elves, or ever have as much mana as gnomes. The fact that they don't increase in stat maxes with the one stat that's already at 25 just balances things out in the other races' favor.

Author:	Orac [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Turon wrote: Orac wrote: This stupid crap was exactly what I knew I would see when I made this thread. I specifically pointed out that the stats are balanced at creation. Gnomes have really high stats and lower then average stats in every other catagory. Deep-elves get a 25 int, some [REDACTED] magic, and then some lower stats and tough vulnerabilies. It's BALANCED TO START Yes, I'm glad that despite all actual evidence to the contrary, you pointed out through EXCESSIVE CAPS that the stats of a deep-elf caster vs. a halfling/human/half-elf/centaur caster were balanced to start. Deep-elves are king casters since the 25 INT buff, period. They're not "getting punished" more on the age tick just because one of their stats didn't happen to increase in max, it's just a chance for all of the other poor saps who rolled different races to catch up just a little bit, even though they always know in the back of their mind that they'll never be able to hold as many spells as deep-elves, or ever have as much mana as gnomes. The fact that they don't increase in stat maxes with the one stat that's already at 25 just balances things out in the other races' favor. I'm just wondering why it is you feel that gnomes and deep-elves aren't entitled to bonuses when they age like every other race is, but they are subject to the same penalties? Is your logic the because they start good at something, at the expense of other things they shouldn't be allowed to improve like everyone else? The fact that that deep-elves and gnomes don't get a stat point as they age doen't balance anything. It penalzies deep-elves and gnomes. These two races sacrifice alot so they can be good at one thing. Then when you elimate what makes them good though that sacrifice by allow other races to catch up and not have to give anything up all you have is race that's been ripped off. I don't see why they can't at least get some modicum of improvement like everyone else. All I can see in your logic is that these races are better then everyone else and people deserve to be just as good. You're competely ignoring the fact that they are weak in many other areas. and that it's balanced. This catch up actually makes them worse then everyone else because no one else sacrificed anything other then what everyone looses as they age to get to that point.

Author:	grep [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:
I have found in real life that life is not fair and that all races are not created equal. If these sentiments are felt in-game, then perhaps it is worth commending for its realism.

Author:	ninja_ardith [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Every character that goes that distance should get those stat boosts that come with aging automatically instead of needing to find a stat mod or waste a stat train into it.

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