Shattered Kingdoms :: View topic - Persuade and aggression.

I can understand charm being aggressive. You exert your influence over another's mind and attempt to enthrall it. Domination is the same thing, only you attempt to force the character into submission.

However, exactly why is persuade aggressive? I can understand multiple persuades being aggressive, but simply trying to persuade someone to do something doesn't seem like they'd want to rip you limb from limb. Especially someone like..Say a priest of Aludra. Persuade shouldn't be aggressive in my opinion. It's not like it'd break bards or overpower them as PC's could still have ample time to react and persuade can't really be spammed quickly like other skills. It's also pretty taxing to use with the ME cost and such. Not only that, it's limited to using in only a couple of areas because NPCs in lawful areas will actually report you for persuading them. It's attempted murder / mugging depending on your mode.

Last time I checked, the help file said that you were persuading them to do something, not saying "Do this or I'll break your arm.." Non aggressive please k thanks.

I think only failed attempts should be considered aggro or against the law. If a person is persuaded to act in a way, why would he afterwards be aggro or go give the persuader in to the hands of the law? Doesn't make much sense and renders the persuade skill almost useless.

P.S. As it is now it sounds like stupid consumers who are persuaded to do something by a tv-commercial and then protest about it and form sue people around.

That is debatable, I am not quite sure. You see, if the person was secretly convince to perform an action, how would the others know, since he appears to do so by his own will?

juggernaut wrote:

That is debatable, I am not quite sure. You see, if the person was secretly convince to perform an action, how would the others know, since he appears to do so by his own will?

How does one secretly convince someone to do something when others are presented. The act in question is using words enhanced by magic to convince your target, and saying you whisper it in their ear to mask your intentions from others doesn't hold water when you're persuading someone in a group. Hence why the act should count as aggressive to those around said target.

Author:	Kin [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Persuade and aggression.
I can understand charm being aggressive. You exert your influence over another's mind and attempt to enthrall it. Domination is the same thing, only you attempt to force the character into submission. However, exactly why is persuade aggressive? I can understand multiple persuades being aggressive, but simply trying to persuade someone to do something doesn't seem like they'd want to rip you limb from limb. Especially someone like..Say a priest of Aludra. Persuade shouldn't be aggressive in my opinion. It's not like it'd break bards or overpower them as PC's could still have ample time to react and persuade can't really be spammed quickly like other skills. It's also pretty taxing to use with the ME cost and such. Not only that, it's limited to using in only a couple of areas because NPCs in lawful areas will actually report you for persuading them. It's attempted murder / mugging depending on your mode. Last time I checked, the help file said that you were persuading them to do something, not saying "Do this or I'll break your arm.." Non aggressive please k thanks.

Author:	Tragonis [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:39 am ]
Post subject:
I would be happy if they just fix persuade.

Author:	Chem [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Persuade and aggression.
Kin wrote: I can understand charm being aggressive. You exert your influence over another's mind and attempt to enthrall it. Domination is the same thing, only you attempt to force the character into submission. However, exactly why is persuade aggressive? I can understand multiple persuades being aggressive, but simply trying to persuade someone to do something doesn't seem like they'd want to rip you limb from limb. Especially someone like..Say a priest of Aludra. Persuade shouldn't be aggressive in my opinion. It's not like it'd break bards or overpower them as PC's could still have ample time to react and persuade can't really be spammed quickly like other skills. It's also pretty taxing to use with the ME cost and such. Not only that, it's limited to using in only a couple of areas because NPCs in lawful areas will actually report you for persuading them. It's attempted murder / mugging depending on your mode. Last time I checked, the help file said that you were persuading them to do something, not saying "Do this or I'll break your arm.." Non aggressive please k thanks. There was a time it wasn't considered aggressive, where you could use it all you wanted without risk of breaking the law even on failures. However such power with no risk is pretty over powered. And it should stay as an aggressive act, considering you are making someone do something they didn't intend on doing in the first place. Also Persuade is like charm person to a lesser extent as both use magic to affect the targeted person. If you read the helpful again it even tells you magic is involved in the skill.

Author:	juggernaut [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:43 am ]
Post subject:
I think only failed attempts should be considered aggro or against the law. If a person is persuaded to act in a way, why would he afterwards be aggro or go give the persuader in to the hands of the law? Doesn't make much sense and renders the persuade skill almost useless. P.S. As it is now it sounds like stupid consumers who are persuaded to do something by a tv-commercial and then protest about it and form sue people around.

Author:	Chem [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:54 am ]
Post subject:
juggernaut wrote: I think only failed attempts should be considered aggro or against the law. If a person is persuaded to act in a way, why would he afterwards be aggro or go give the persuader in to the hands of the law? Doesn't make much sense and renders the persuade skill almost useless. P.S. As it is now it sounds like stupid consumers who are persuaded to do something by a tv-commercial and then protest about it and form sue people around. A successfully attempt should not be counted as aggressive for the person that was persuaded, but to those around him it should be.

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Author:	juggernaut [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:
That is debatable, I am not quite sure. You see, if the person was secretly convince to perform an action, how would the others know, since he appears to do so by his own will?

Author:	Incendax [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Persuade is a skill, not a spell. This makes it morally equivalent to murdering a girl scout for trying to convince you to buy her cookies. The proper response to unwanted sales pressure is to ignore the seller, which is exactly what the target of persuade should do.

Author:	patrisaurus [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:
On the other hand, Incendax, it is also morally equivalent to attacking someone for walking up to you and trying to convince you to betray your nation by disbanding your formation right before an enemy warparty walks into the room. Since there are a lot of shades of potential persuasions and the code cannot distinguish one from another it is accurately classified as aggressive.

Author:	Chem [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:
juggernaut wrote: That is debatable, I am not quite sure. You see, if the person was secretly convince to perform an action, how would the others know, since he appears to do so by his own will? How does one secretly convince someone to do something when others are presented. The act in question is using words enhanced by magic to convince your target, and saying you whisper it in their ear to mask your intentions from others doesn't hold water when you're persuading someone in a group. Hence why the act should count as aggressive to those around said target.

Author:	grep [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Chem wrote: juggernaut wrote: That is debatable, I am not quite sure. You see, if the person was secretly convince to perform an action, how would the others know, since he appears to do so by his own will? How does one secretly convince someone to do something when others are presented. The act in question is using words enhanced by magic to convince your target, and saying you whisper it in their ear to mask your intentions from others doesn't hold water when you're persuading someone in a group. Hence why the act should count as aggressive to those around said target. tell-epathy

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