Shattered Kingdoms
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/

Sorcerors and "I Win."
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21505		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  WickedWitch [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Sorcerors and "I Win."
Why do sorcerors have so many I Win buttons?

Somebody have low Willpower? Charm person. You win.

Somebody have low Fortitude? Petrification. You win.

Need to damage someone? Lathron/Losquaty + Wands/broken scrolls like Triple FoD. You win.

Sorcerors are also practically invincible unless the player is a [REDACTED], or unless you go up against a group of like...Merc, Swashie, Rogue, Priest. And even then, chances are the rogue will break the taunt affect when he goes ethereal and attacks you.

On top of being the MOST powerful class on the game. (They outrank necros by far. All it takes to ruin a necro is one paladin or lightie priest.) They are the ONLY class in the game who can fully prep themselves. Sorc is capable of rocking most areas solo, can locate, and can enchant for themselves.

This class needs a serious nerf, either in the power department, or the utility department.
Author:  ladyjennbo [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
Anjin and Syn need their own off-board. DarkAvenger can be the mod in charge of it.

I guess I was practically a [REDACTED] when playing my two sorcs (well, that's a given) but I think a lot of people underutilize them regardless. Just because you use them as "I Win" buttons doesn't mean everyone does/will/knows how to. I see sorcs get killed in PK logs often enough that it doesn't really bother me, and I've been on the receiving end of some scary mofo sorcs, yours included.
Author:  ladyjennbo [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
Man, Syn must get to have all of her word filters off for some reason. How'd that happen?
Author:  Edoras [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
Wait, crap, you mean spells are affected by saves?

Well that's stupid, whose idea was that?

Sorcs are fine.
Author:  j3r3myp1pp3n [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
ladyjennbo wrote:
Man, Syn must get to have all of her word filters off for some reason. How'd that happen?


Put the word next to a punctuation mark and it bypasses the filter.
Author:  FinneyOwnzU [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
WickedWitch wrote:
Why do sorcerors have so many I Win buttons?

Somebody have low Willpower? Charm person. You win.

Somebody have low Fortitude? Petrification. You win.

Need to damage someone? Lathron/Losquaty + Wands/broken scrolls like Triple FoD. You win.

Sorcerors are also practically invincible unless the player is a [REDACTED], or unless you go up against a group of like...Merc, Swashie, Rogue, Priest. And even then, chances are the rogue will break the taunt affect when he goes ethereal and attacks you.

On top of being the MOST powerful class on the game. (They outrank necros by far. All it takes to ruin a necro is one paladin or lightie priest.) They are the ONLY class in the game who can fully prep themselves. Sorc is capable of rocking most areas solo, can locate, and can enchant for themselves.

This class needs a serious nerf, either in the power department, or the utility department.


Sorcerers are not the root of the problem. It is the plethora of wands, scrolls and staves that have infiltrated the game, which mimic the best spells of every class.

The "arms race" between builders to have the most uber and unique items started with Yenko in Ch'zzrym and then continued with Reina (AE) in the Temple of Murder/Outer Planes and every builder since then.

An easy fix would be to only allow wands, scrolls and staves to produce magical effects for known spells. For example, a sorcerer could use an acid blast wand, but reciting finger of death from a scroll or brandishing a stone skin stave would fail since they don't have knowledge of those spells.

The code already checks for available concentration after the last update, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to check the rating of the spell (i.e. good, very good, superb, mastered) when an item is used to see if it will work or fail.
Author:  Viper [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
On a related note, I clearly remember Lorzatu using wands of identify and locate object.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

:P LOL
Author:  Edoras [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
Meh. Allowing only known spells to be used would be too much, if you ask me, and undervalue a lot of the artifacts in the game. While I understand that undervaluing those artifacts is what you want, it would also end up undervaluing a lot of areas too.
Author:  jhorleb [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
I also think Finney's idea would be going too far. Its attractiveness is in its simplicity, but there are (intentional?) gaps in classes that are currently covered by wands/staves/scrolls/etc.

I actually think with the change to concentration and ordering NPC stances the only things that might need tweaking are:
* Charm person on pcs (I'd just disallow this and then take away all the silly stuff about not being able to take charms over air, making them remove everything, increased casting time, scribability, etc.)
* Aggressive wands/scrolls- there might be a few of these that are over the top and should be removed. I use some of them.
Author:  FinneyOwnzU [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sorcerors and "I Win."
Viper wrote:
On a related note, I clearly remember Lorzatu using wands of identify and locate object.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

:P LOL


Yep, I used to loved those lenses from the Anduras Cloister. Every caster class should have access to identify and locate object, in my opinion. For warlocks, you could take away the incredibly useful spell detect poison in exchange.
Page 1 of 4 All times are UTC - 8 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/