Dispel magic and impairment.

Edoras · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:12 am

I think that dispel magic is the most powerful debuffing spell available in the game, and as such it should not be on the list of impairment spells.

Dispel magic, unlike any other debuff, can cancel out multiple positive buffs with a single cast. It also can be cast across the ethereal plane. If the person being dispelled has giant strength or haste, then dispelling those is actually a debuff in addition to losing those spells, since the affected person takes fatigue. I cannot think of many situations where I would rather cast slow, weakness, or poison instead of dispel magic in PvP unless I was fighting against an unbuffed newb, since warrior classes in general have much higher fort saves than will saves, and also so heavily benefit from defensive buffs.

I think that if dispel magic did not incur impairment, it wouldn't be out of balance, but that as it stands now, it is a clear obvious choice concerning every single end-game PvP. If anyone would rather choose slow/weaken/poison/blindness over this

Quote:

A repugnant male sprite utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel less righteous.
Your rage ebbs.
You feel weaker.
You feel yourself slow down.
You feel heavier.
You feel less righteous.
You feel less protected.
Your force shield shimmers then fades away.
Your spirit companions leave you.

They're a crazy person.

tl;dr Dispel magic shouldn't have impairment because it's already powerful enough.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

The impairment for dispel magic is just too high, that's all.

Edoras · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:20 am

I agree, it is more than zero, therefore it is higher than it should be.

As far as I can tell, impairment is determined only by casting time, so I don't see a point in altering the codebase just for dispel magic to have "less" of an impairment. The spell's powerful enough without it, IMO. Give the classes with access to it a reason to use their other maledictions.

Mcbeth · **Joined:** Fri May 16, 2008 7:25 pm **Posts:** 264

I agree with Edoras!

Baldric · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:09 pm

Dispel magic is probably a better choice than other debuff spells available to the necromancer/shaman/sorc in a large percentage of situations. If the purpose of the impairment system is to encourage diversity in offensive spell choice, then perhaps it would make sense to remove dispel magic from the list of spells working under the impairment system.

Edoras is right that dispel magic can be very powerful against a prepped opponent. I would like to point out the things that dispel magic can't do, however:
1) Make your opponent drop his weapon. Think of giants, or a massive-weapon-wielding merc/barb who doesn't have GS
2) Blind your opponent. Yes, a good player will -usually- have a pod, but blinding a rogue can still win you the fight.
3) Deafen your opponent (think bards or spell casters)
4) Keep your opponent from recalling (while lowering his accuracy significantly for added bonus).
5) Make your opponent(s) flee the room. Is fear on the impairment system btw?
6) Directly deal damage to your opponent. I guess the only spells that do this while being on the impairment system are warlock spells, though.
7) Put your opponent to sleep, effectively taking him out of the group battle, or setting him up to get executed. Sleep is an impairment spell, right? I feel like this thread should have been about sleep. That spell is OP imo. Only time not to use it is in larger battles where holy words and color sprays are going off.

All the other maledictions and debuff spells have their uses. I guess slow is only useful against someone if they are unprepped or if you have already dispelled their haste. It is especially true that any necromancer who casts slow in pvp is a moron.

I'm only pointing this out because I feel Edoras has exaggerated by saying "every single end-game pvp." I agree with his overall point that dispel is usually a better choice than other debuffs.

I am also under the impression that if you cast giant strength on someone, and then cast weaken on them over and over, you will get rid of their giant strength more often than you would by spamming dispel magic on them. Someone can test this, however. I believe there are two checks for dispel magic. One initial and then one for each spell on the target, right? If so, it is misleading to suggest that weaken/slow are redundant with dispel magic.

Edoras · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:54 am

As best I can tell, dispel magic is first a will save, then a level check against every spell the target has. The will save is the only one that seems to matter much for me in testing. However, it received a buff recently.

However, Baldric has a point. I should have said that as a debuff spell on melee characters, dispel magic is by far the best option. I think dispel should not be an impairment spell as a combination of how much better it is than weaken, slow, poison, and blindness (On melee characters, sure), and also so that melee characters aren't as hosed against shaman, sorcs and necros in group fights. The people in the front ranks shouldn't have a near non-zero chance of losing all their spells and getting rocked in a few rounds.

Also, lol, fear is an impairment spell, that's pretty crazy. I didn't realize that until just now. At least the cast is fast so it probably doesn't make that much of a difference, but dang.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Code:

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  

Caerthynna starts to concentrate.

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  

Caerthynna utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel a brief tingling sensation.

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  
aff

 oOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOo
 o [Affects] Tolene Nir'Careth, Pretty Justiciar                             o
 o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o
 o Affect: 'impaired' - penalty to willpower                                 o
 o Affect: 'armor' - deflection bonus to probability to dodge                o
 o Affect: 'prayer' - morale bonus to reflex                                 o
 o Affect: 'prayer' - morale bonus to willpower                              o
 o Affect: 'prayer' - morale bonus to fortitude                              o
 o Affect: 'prayer' - morale bonus to weapon damage                          o
 o Affect: 'prayer' - morale bonus to probability to hit                     o
 oOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOo

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  
Caerthynna starts to concentrate.

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  

Caerthynna utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel a brief tingling sensation.

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  

Caerthynna starts to concentrate.

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  

Caerthynna utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel a brief tingling sensation.

Life 100 Mana  98 Move  90  

Caerthynna starts to concentrate.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel a brief tingling sensation.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna starts to concentrate.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  
'How much art you have?
You ask 'How much art you have?'

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel a brief tingling sensation.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna ponders carefully for a moment.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna says to you 'A considerable amount of practice in the artistry, but I didn`t keep exact count of the lessons.'

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  
sayto caer Keep trying.
You say to Caerthynna 'Keep trying.'

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna tells the group 'OOC: I wish that was something we could look up on our stat things.'

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna starts to concentrate.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel a brief tingling sensation.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna starts to concentrate.

Life 100 Mana 100 Move 100  

Caerthynna utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel less protected.
You feel less righteous.

Looks fine to me.

Tragonis · **Posted:** Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:29 pm

A fully kitted out elf is hardly a good test. That is like testing magma on a naked centaur.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Quiet, you died to Lonny.

Tragonis · **Posted:** Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:06 pm

Oh no, burn? Good one. :sleepy:

Shattered Kingdoms

Dispel magic and impairment.

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