Shattered Kingdoms :: View topic - Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change

The new fighting code resulted in a change to skills, such as backstab and cleave, that provide big opening attack damage. Previously you could use these attacks until you personally started fighting, even if your party was already fighting the target. Now you can only use them if your party is not yet fighting. Among other things, this means the party can use only one big opening attack versus another party. If a third party walks into the room, someone from their party can use their opening attack against either other party, even if they are both in combat.

The question is do you like the new way or prefer the old way? Please support your vote with reasoning if possible. The result of the poll will factor into whether or not I make further changes.

Author:	Dulrik [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:18 am ]
Post subject:	Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
The new fighting code resulted in a change to skills, such as backstab and cleave, that provide big opening attack damage. Previously you could use these attacks until you personally started fighting, even if your party was already fighting the target. Now you can only use them if your party is not yet fighting. Among other things, this means the party can use only one big opening attack versus another party. If a third party walks into the room, someone from their party can use their opening attack against either other party, even if they are both in combat. The question is do you like the new way or prefer the old way? Please support your vote with reasoning if possible. The result of the poll will factor into whether or not I make further changes.

Author:	FinneyOwnzU [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
Dulrik wrote: The new fighting code resulted in a change to skills, such as backstab and cleave, that provide big opening attack damage. Previously you could use these attacks until you personally started fighting, even if your party was already fighting the target. Now you can only use them if your party is not yet fighting. Among other things, this means the party can use only one big opening attack versus another party. If a third party walks into the room, someone from their party can use their opening attack against either other party, even if they are both in combat. The question is do you like the new way or prefer the old way? Please support your vote with reasoning if possible. The result of the poll will factor into whether or not I make further changes. If I am wrong, please correct me. However, cleave only required that your character not be in combat. Backstab requires that your target not be in combat and not have a racing pulse, so the recent update really won't change much with backstab. I voted for reverting the change for cleave, though.

Author:	Edoras [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
It's important to note the distinction between <HoL ability> and cleave, compared to backstab. Backstab depended on the target's group not being in combat (and not having a racing pulse) as well as the backstabber not being in combat either: And as such, it hasn't been changed with this update. Cleave and <HoL ability>, however, were previously only dependant on whether or not the PC using said skill was in combat, regardless of whether his group was. As a result they've received a big nerf to them, which I personally dislike. They were already difficult and a gamble to use before in most situations, now they're almost impossible to use in PvP or PvE. I say change cleave and <HoL ability> to be usable as long as the person using them hasn't been in combat that tick yet, which is how things were before this change. Backstab should be left alone, as nothing has changed with it.

Author:	Muktar [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
I agree with the two above posts.

Author:	ninja_ardith [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
I prefer the old way. I think people will just split their groups up to take advantage of the new code. This sort of robs the hellion specifically of a neat class defining ability.

Shattered Kingdoms https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/

Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=22756	Page 1 of 2

Author:	ObjectivistActivist [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
The old way. There were tactical options available to hellions and HoL members in the use of auto assist on/off. Now, that's basically non-existent. Ardith is right in that it takes something significant away from the hellion class specifically. Also, nothing's changed with backstab so...Uh, leave that as it is and has been.

Author:	Hello Kitty [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
I agree with all of the Cleave and <HoL ability> comments. I would also throw in that I see no reason a person not involved in melee is tied into combat. If the purpose of that was to allow circle stab to work on anyone in a group I'd like to see the change made to circle stab instead of the current way it's working. To me, there is really no viable reason a person in the back should not be allowed to rest/sit/sleep/walk away while the front row is in melee, nor should there be any reason said person shouldn't be allowed to be circle stabbed.

Author:	Nightwing [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
Auto assist should be the determining factor here. You're not caught up in combat unless a) you personally commit an aggressive action, or b) you auto assist into a fight. This way, group leaders can turn on auto assist and guarantee that they don't leave their parties behind even from the back row, but hellions, hammer, and scouts, and spellcasters (if they desire) can turn it off to allow ambush / cleave / youknowwhat to still allow multiple openers, at the cost of breaking sanctuary. This would also let a uninvolved (back rank / skirmishing) character follow a fleeing enemy or walk away from a fight if so desired.

Author:	archaicsmurf [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
Nightwing wrote: Auto assist should be the determining factor here. You're not caught up in combat unless a) you personally commit an aggressive action, or b) you auto assist into a fight. This way, group leaders can turn on auto assist and guarantee that they don't leave their parties behind even from the back row, but hellions, hammer, and scouts, and spellcasters (if they desire) can turn it off to allow ambush / cleave / youknowwhat to still allow multiple openers, at the cost of breaking sanctuary. This would also let a uninvolved (back rank / skirmishing) character follow a fleeing enemy or walk away from a fight if so desired. I agree with Nightwing and voted for the new way.

Author:	WickedWitch [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Backstab, Cleave, <HoL ability> Change
If you voted for the new way, you don't agree with Nightwing. The 'new' way, you are fighting as soon as someone in your group hits someone or gets hit. At that point, you can not use cleave/HoL ability. The old way, you weren't "fighting" until you did something aggressive, like auto assist. Which you could turn off, for a CHANCE at using cleave/HoL. But you also have to manually do something to start getting your melee hits. Obviously, I am slightly biased, since I am leveling a hellion, but I prefer the old way. The new way just cut out some viable tactics. None of which were particularly OMGAMAZING, they just let skills like cleave/charge actually get used. On a side note, yes..this should not have affected backstab at all, since you couldn't use backstab on someone if their group was in combat anyways.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC - 8 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/