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 Post subject: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Rhode Island
SK Character: Walthur
Fear should affect ONE person, not an entire group. Recently, fighting a necromancer I realized it is far too powerful. The necromancer casts it, the group falls apart and the necromancer wins. This is an 'i win' button and it needs to be changed for balance purposes. I don't care if you disagree so don't bother. All the characters would need the related save to adequate levels only to retain the group still being attacked by a bunch of undead/scrolls/ spells. Its OP. In the particular fight, we had three paladins and a merc spec'd in HoL all prepared and ready that were instantly destroyed by the fear spell, is that balance? Is that a little too much for a class that already is arguably the most dangerous in the game? Making fear target one person would still make it useful but not so much so that it wins fights for you nearly every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:14 pm
Posts: 828
SK Character: Sargas
The best part about fear is that it punishes people who are better prepared. Oh, you have high willpower but you're with a group that's not as good as you? You saved for fear so your group's abandoned you. Enjoy your stabbing.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Rhode Island
SK Character: Walthur
Expecting an entire group to have a similar save to negate an 'i win' spell donned by an already ridiculous class is too much. As I suggested, make it target one person. As I said, I watched fear allow a necromancer to beat a group of three paladins and a HoL spec'd merc and there is virtually no way to ever counter other than expecting each to all have the aformentioned save. Unfortunately, this has been the case for years now. My man obama said it best, 'Change'


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:51 am
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Obama totally built up his campaign on the idea that necromancers were OP.

<Insert Black [Magic] Joke>


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
Posts: 5614
Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
I think that fear should actually be buffed because the entertainment value from threads like these cannot be surpassed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:12 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=22&t=23037


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:23 pm 
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It takes no skill to play a necromancer. Anybody can run around with 9 NPCs, and a group distorting spell, and teabag unsuspecting newbs, and pretend they're badass. There's absolutely no reason that a group of PCs should have to be assembled to deal with one PC.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Edoras wrote:
I think that fear should actually be buffed because the entertainment value from threads like these cannot be surpassed.


Edoras wrote:
Would whichever KD that is in charge of Exile please nerf the warparty and jail area? Unlike any other jail in any other kingdom, Exile's jail has three rooms of no-recall once you free someone from it, and since you aren't going to be freeing anyone that isn't pretty outlawed, that means three rooms of bounty NPCs to kill before anyone can get out safely.

As well, the warparty that is summoned when you kill Exile's judge to jailbreak someone has scripted NPCs that consist of spells to spam and glow scripts to give them buffs. No other warparty is anywhere close to this one in how destructive it is.


Edoras wrote:
Hey, you know what doesn't sound fun? Having to carry around 3-4 backup weapons because you can easily get disarmed 3+ times in a single PvP battle and if your weapon drops you're screwed.

I think that disarm should be nerfed to never drop the weapon on the ground, only in someone's inventory. Honestly this should have gone in as soon as you could no longer pick up weapons during combat.

Oh, and swashies should be able to disarm while prone if this goes into effect. Throw them a bone.


Edoras wrote:
A) This are dumb. It makes no sense for a barbarian to be more adept at dispelling -anything- than users of magic. Someone with a crapload of enchants won't be dispelled by a magic user in a fight without a lot of dispel magic casts, but they can be dispelled in an instant by a barbarian.

B) This is unnecessary. MR barbarians were/are frustrating to play because training MR takes away a lot of your PvE potential and also makes you difficult to heal in fights and buff before fights in PvP. The magical damage reduction was good enough, aura of negation made MR barbs godlike in PvP with the least prep of any melee character ever.

C) This is damaging to the game. Now, instead of playing a character who needs to interact with other characters in order to be able to handle themselves in PvP by gathering consumables for spells or enchantments for armor, you can just roll an MR griffarb and win fights against other PCs regardless of the prep they've put into a fight, because you can just aura of negation all their prep away even if you're bashed. On the other hand, if you aren't playing an MR barb then no matter how strong your melee character is, no matter how much prep you may have put into them in enchants/consumables, in fact, no matter if you even manage to prep up before a fight starts, an MR griffarb can beat you in a fight because they can just turn on their aura of negation and cancel all of your buffs, and your magical weapons you spent hours obtaining and enchanting do half damage on top of that because screw you, that's why.


Why was this feature: A feature that no one asked for and that rewards putting no prep into your character while even punishing those who do, put into the game? I say remove aura of negation. It's not only dumb, but it serves to give a big "screw you" to people who actually put work into their character.

If I was playing someone with a sick enchanted suit that got ganked by an MR griffarb fully dispelling me and bashing me to death, I'd probably delete and never play again.


Edoras wrote:
I think that dispel magic is the most powerful debuffing spell available in the game, and as such it should not be on the list of impairment spells.

Dispel magic, unlike any other debuff, can cancel out multiple positive buffs with a single cast. It also can be cast across the ethereal plane. If the person being dispelled has giant strength or haste, then dispelling those is actually a debuff in addition to losing those spells, since the affected person takes fatigue. I cannot think of many situations where I would rather cast slow, weakness, or poison instead of dispel magic in PvP unless I was fighting against an unbuffed newb, since warrior classes in general have much higher fort saves than will saves, and also so heavily benefit from defensive buffs.

I think that if dispel magic did not incur impairment, it wouldn't be out of balance, but that as it stands now, it is a clear obvious choice concerning every single end-game PvP. If anyone would rather choose slow/weaken/poison/blindness over this
Quote:
A repugnant male sprite utters the words, 'eugszr waouq'.
You feel less righteous.
Your rage ebbs.
You feel weaker.
You feel yourself slow down.
You feel heavier.
You feel less righteous.
You feel less protected.
Your force shield shimmers then fades away.
Your spirit companions leave you.
They're a crazy person.

tl;dr Dispel magic shouldn't have impairment because it's already powerful enough.


Edoras wrote:
Without giving away too many details, there's one certain religious spell that has extremely powerful applications both for utility and for PvP, not only for offensive use but also for defensive use via buffing your allies (Meaning it is amazing both against poorly enchanted opponents by targeting them and against well enchanted opponents by targeting yourself or your allies). There is only one other religion spell that remains anywhere in the same ballpark for PvP, and that religion spell is purely offensive, has an extremely high concentration and longer casting time, and is also limited or outright cancelled by a number of things. In addition, said purely offensive spell has absolutely no utility outside of combat.


I propose that this certain extremely powerful spell be made self-only. Making it self-only allows it to retain all of it's out of combat utility, and still allows it to be extremely useful in PvP in a defensive and aggressive way for the priest, which in and of itself still rivals the best religious spells available to that same aura. The only other easy and useful nerfs to this specific spell (Increasing concentration or mana drain) would impair it's effectiveness for too many other purposes which make the spell so interesting.

That is all.


Edoras wrote:
How about change this? Because it's rather stupid.


Edoras wrote:
It needs to be changed so that it doesn't work while prone, or doesn't work at all. As far as I know it may even allow people to escape from BoG which should also be disabled if it isn't.

I would have posted this before, but I wasn't completely aware of how it works until recently. It really is a get out of jail totally free card that wasn't broken until the prone change. Sorry to Veret, but it needs to be fixed.

Edoras wrote:
To avoid clogging up GD:

Marfik wrote:
Actually I would be interested to hear people's thoughts about the changes in the Talons. You can PM me if you want. I know there have been a lot of buffs recently, but they were massively underpowered to begin with.

Of course all those guards in the inn is either a bug or someone playing around with leadership

It's probably the latter: Trib members manipulating spawn + grouping mechanisms to move guards from their original spawns by placing them into groups with other guards, which causes them to spawn back at the original point, where the process can be then repeated. In a few area repops you can turn a few groups of 3 into a handful of warmachines.

Your changes as a builder were probably standard, it's just that there's no hard-coded way (Aside from area limits on NPCs, perhaps that would be the best way to avoid spam spawning of guards) to keep that sort of legal NPC manipulation from happening. I didn't realize that until just recently. Even with that ability, I like what you've done with the place. Zhenshi is actually able to stand up to the legends it bears in the books. I would prefer that there was a way to prevent trib players from being able to create groups of 6+ guards in multiple places throughout the city, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 11:20 pm
Posts: 2109
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
atrisum_sk seems to really like you Edoras!

Fear seems to work just fine as it does as is.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear: OP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Rhode Island
SK Character: Walthur
ninja_ardith wrote:
It takes no skill to play a necromancer. Anybody can run around with 9 NPCs, and a group distorting spell, and teabag unsuspecting newbs, and pretend they're badass. There's absolutely no reason that a group of PCs should have to be assembled to deal with one PC.


-No reason a group of NPCs should have to assemble to deal with a single NPC. Thank you ardith, my sentiments exactly. I didnt want to jump to the conclusion that necromancers are OP, even though they are, but fear is the icing on the cake.


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