Shattered Kingdoms :: View topic - IDEA: Enemy of the state

I know, I know: if you want to fight with impunity in the city, join a tribunal. But that really is just ridiculous when enemy troops come marching into the city. And this is completely different from vigilante justice going after a murderer or thief (even though OUTLAWs where supposed to be OUTside the protection of the LAW). Really, why shouldn't people be able to defend their home or their allies' home? It's not just paladin who want to fight the enemy, after all.

Well how about the crime of enemy of the state (or war crimes or whatever)? If you are in a warring faction and commit a crime, your crime will be simply listed as enemy of the state. So this would happen pretty quickly for tribunal members as they are attacked on sight, but a noncriminal cabal member could still operate as they do in that enemy territory. However, if they committed and were reported for any crime, no matter how small, they would be labeled as an enemy of the state. The complaints about secret memberships can be dismissed with the same response they get now: don't do the crime then.

Enemies of the state will be attacked on sight by law NPCs who should also yell about "Invaders attacking in the Hart in Rose!" or "Invaders attacking in Cathar-du Square!" They will be killed and all possessions stripped in order to pay restitution for their war efforts. But this does not remove the stain of being an enemy of the state. It would be assumed that if you returned to life and came back, you would still be any enemy. You would only loose this status by official pardon, or by having your factions come to a truce.

And once they gain notoriety as an enemy warrior, we no longer have to worry about this nonsense where we can't have vigilante justice. This person is an enemy of the state, it is expected that they come making war, and since large numbers of societies have drafted citizens into military service in war times, you would not only be allowed, but you would be EXPECTED to attack and kill the enemy invaders. Right? I understand that outlaws will never be treated as OUTside the LAW, but shouldn't at least enemy warriors who bring war upon your soil? And heck we can even add it to people who commit crimes while grouped with enemy warriors (which would also help with complaints about giving away secret membership).

Wouldn't this be so much nicer and make a whole lot more sense?

Author:	zryych [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:	IDEA: Enemy of the state
I know, I know: if you want to fight with impunity in the city, join a tribunal. But that really is just ridiculous when enemy troops come marching into the city. And this is completely different from vigilante justice going after a murderer or thief (even though OUTLAWs where supposed to be OUTside the protection of the LAW). Really, why shouldn't people be able to defend their home or their allies' home? It's not just paladin who want to fight the enemy, after all. Well how about the crime of enemy of the state (or war crimes or whatever)? If you are in a warring faction and commit a crime, your crime will be simply listed as enemy of the state. So this would happen pretty quickly for tribunal members as they are attacked on sight, but a noncriminal cabal member could still operate as they do in that enemy territory. However, if they committed and were reported for any crime, no matter how small, they would be labeled as an enemy of the state. The complaints about secret memberships can be dismissed with the same response they get now: don't do the crime then. Enemies of the state will be attacked on sight by law NPCs who should also yell about "Invaders attacking in the Hart in Rose!" or "Invaders attacking in Cathar-du Square!" They will be killed and all possessions stripped in order to pay restitution for their war efforts. But this does not remove the stain of being an enemy of the state. It would be assumed that if you returned to life and came back, you would still be any enemy. You would only loose this status by official pardon, or by having your factions come to a truce. And once they gain notoriety as an enemy warrior, we no longer have to worry about this nonsense where we can't have vigilante justice. This person is an enemy of the state, it is expected that they come making war, and since large numbers of societies have drafted citizens into military service in war times, you would not only be allowed, but you would be EXPECTED to attack and kill the enemy invaders. Right? I understand that outlaws will never be treated as OUTside the LAW, but shouldn't at least enemy warriors who bring war upon your soil? And heck we can even add it to people who commit crimes while grouped with enemy warriors (which would also help with complaints about giving away secret membership). Wouldn't this be so much nicer and make a whole lot more sense?

Author:	Dulrik [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
I'm not quite sure how the purpose behind this idea differs from banishment.

Author:	Sargas [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
It essentially allows citizens to take up arms against attackers.

Author:	zryych [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
Sargas wrote: It essentially allows citizens to take up arms against attackers. Yes, this is the most important thing it does. What nation in history isgoing to imprison people for fighting against attackers, except for a puppet state? If anything, many are going to be pissed at citizens who don't take up arms. Its an official action that happens when doing a crime while at war rather than a tribunal leader deciding to banish a criminal. I would say that banished people at least should be fair game too, but I know that isn't going to happen. But why should people get in trouble for attacking invaders, and this system officially classifies enemies that are fair game.

Author:	Vicasharie [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
I like this idea... it creates more unity within a society so take up arms and defend their homeland. I think it's a wonderful idea.

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Author:	Rodwen [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
Vigilantism is a crime, yes, but a vigilante is usually found chasing criminals from within his own city, or at least, country. So, a vigilante of Atlanta is trying to bring down a criminal local to Atlanta. When someone from the Empire comes to Exile, that's like some North Korean soldiers stepping onto American soil guns a blazing. If any random citizen took up arms and killed some of them, they would be heralded as a hero, not sent to jail. inb4 this is SK not RL.

Author:	shadow [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
Nice idea

Author:	Aelandron [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
I like the idea in concept, but (keep in mind I don't know how the coding works now) I would hope that each kingdom / tribunal would be able to set the rules about unsolicited citizen assisstance. Perhaps granting tribunal members a "enlist" power that lets them temporarily grant the ability to help enforce justice without ramification. Otherwise I'd assume they'd want to investigate fights in their cities and award pardons for citizens who were standing up for the kingdom / or the laws of the land / etc. or defending themselves, etc. Still the point I'm trying to make is that I'd hope the solution is RP driven, and leaves room for tribunals to set the rules in their kingdom and how strict they want to be about citizen vigilantism. Allowing for differences in approach / tolerance of such actions will give flavors to the lands, and hopefully lead to different RP.

Author:	Superman [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
zryych wrote: I know, I know: if you want to fight with impunity in the city, join a tribunal. But that really is just ridiculous when enemy troops come marching into the city. And this is completely different from vigilante justice going after a murderer or thief (even though OUTLAWs where supposed to be OUTside the protection of the LAW). Really, why shouldn't people be able to defend their home or their allies' home? It's not just paladin who want to fight the enemy, after all. Well how about the crime of enemy of the state (or war crimes or whatever)? If you are in a warring faction and commit a crime, your crime will be simply listed as enemy of the state. So this would happen pretty quickly for tribunal members as they are attacked on sight, but a noncriminal cabal member could still operate as they do in that enemy territory. However, if they committed and were reported for any crime, no matter how small, they would be labeled as an enemy of the state. The complaints about secret memberships can be dismissed with the same response they get now: don't do the crime then. Enemies of the state will be attacked on sight by law NPCs who should also yell about "Invaders attacking in the Hart in Rose!" or "Invaders attacking in Cathar-du Square!" They will be killed and all possessions stripped in order to pay restitution for their war efforts. But this does not remove the stain of being an enemy of the state. It would be assumed that if you returned to life and came back, you would still be any enemy. You would only loose this status by official pardon, or by having your factions come to a truce. And once they gain notoriety as an enemy warrior, we no longer have to worry about this nonsense where we can't have vigilante justice. This person is an enemy of the state, it is expected that they come making war, and since large numbers of societies have drafted citizens into military service in war times, you would not only be allowed, but you would be EXPECTED to attack and kill the enemy invaders. Right? I understand that outlaws will never be treated as OUTside the LAW, but shouldn't at least enemy warriors who bring war upon your soil? And heck we can even add it to people who commit crimes while grouped with enemy warriors (which would also help with complaints about giving away secret membership). Wouldn't this be so much nicer and make a whole lot more sense? God, dude. Law immunity is one of the very few perks to being in a Tribunal. Learn to deal with it. All this whining always seems to come from people who are unwilling to join a Tribunal, because you don't get 5 shiny new abilities to play with. This is a game. It's not about realism, it's about balance. One of the only perks to Tribunals? You don't have to deal with law code in your home. Do you want law immunity? Then man the hell up and get over joining a Cabal for haxxor skills and join your local tribunal. Being labelled "enemy of the state" over any crime, is a horrible idea. And then there's no way to get out of it? I don't think I need to explain why this idea just went from horrible to well. I don't know. Like something I'd expect to hear from Bizarro, man. Come on. Bro, what's with the "OUTside the LAW" crap? If you went out and murdered a murder, you're still going to jail. Real talk. The only needed fix to the law code currently is that you shouldn't be reported for crimes if you are grouped with a Tribunal member.

Author:	Rodwen [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IDEA: Enemy of the state
Superman wrote: The only needed fix to the law code currently is that you shouldn't be reported for crimes if you are grouped with a Tribunal member. What? Did you just type a whole post about law immunity being for members of a tribunal and only for members of a tribunal, and then slip this little gem in at the end? Empire dude shows up in Exile. Something goes horribly wrong and he accidentally kills the trash boy in the inn. Some Taslamaran character attacks him in retribution. That Taslamaran character is a vigilante and should be put in jail. Empire dude shows up in Exile. He comes in through the west gate. He slaughters all guards, shopkeepers, priests, children, horses, bankers, trainers, barkeeps, bards, poor folk, blind folk, polky folky, and a chicken. Taslamaran character attacks him in retribution. That Taslamaran character is the savior of Exile and has a statue made in his image.

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