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| Which classes are underpowered? https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24141 |
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| Author: | Anjin [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Which classes are underpowered? |
Which classes are underpowered? Why? What should be done to fix them? I vote warlock and scout. I don't think I have to explain why warlocks are underpowered, I bet right now that it will probably get more votes than any class. I think scouts should get trip. They get just as many bow attacks per round as a mercenary, except that a mercenary can specialize in bow. Yes, they get a few outdoor tricks for if they happen to be fighting outdoors, which is not where most PK happens. Other than this, they get a pet barbarian NPC and light armor to make up for not being mercenaries. And they get herbalism and fletch, which are great, but these are crafting skills, not fighting skills. So anyway. Scouts suck, being able to trip with spears while behind their pets would help even them out with mercenaries, who are still pretty much better than scouts. Rogues and bards already have trip. |
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| Author: | Gilgon [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
I vote swash/shaman/warlock. Swash and shaman were abused by the new changes to enchant, but warlock got some benefit. I would say worst is warlock, second is shaman, third is swash. |
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| Author: | Opey [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
Scouts don't need trip. I don't see a problem with warlocks. |
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| Author: | grep [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
PVP is potentially logged. Maybe PVE death is, too? It would be nice to see some numbers on what killed what to have a snapshot of how things are actually being played. |
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| Author: | Kin [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
Warlocks and Swashbucklers. I don't have to explain why swashbucklers suck. I've never even played one and probably won't. Kip up was a step in the right direction but it still doesn't stop them from getting steamrolled from a merc / barb. All of a warlock's problems could be fixed simply by giving them dispel. Against unprepared opponents a warlock shines. Their spells are absurdly OP against those. I 2 shot an aludran priest with chain lightning when she had no buffs on. After she put sanc / protection on, I couldn't touch her. Dispel wands are an option when they're not hoarded, but magical devices should be used to augment a class, not relied upon. Against a person who manages to get some of the scripted gear with RE, you're straight up useless against. (7% magma on an elf etc.) As for those who have told me to explore, I have. Just about every place I've icly learned of and went to, nothing was there. I'm lucky to find a moderate dispel wand anymore. A warlock can't really range people down offensively. The casting time and the change to combat makes it so you can't leave your elemental fighting someone in a different room as you. All they have to do is speed run, smack your elemental and your kiting is effectively over. If you flee out of the room, your elemental will flee as well, often times in a different direction. Where other caster classes have ways to deal with prepared opponents, warlocks don't really have this readily available and their spell damage is all they have. They don't get scrolls or such that allow them to instantly take someone from the fight. Magma is literally their goto spell and once it's nullified, that's it. While it is strong, it isn't as strong as everyone clamors it is. Sure it can one shot a sorc that has no buffs. Once they slap some on, you're not really going to do much to them, if you can even get the magma off on them to begin with. Warlocks ARE good defensively for the most part. I don't dispute this. But then again, anyone can sit behind a wall and throw spells / arrows out. They won't have as much effectiveness because most of the warlocks spells are room / group affecting, but still the warlock is advertised as an offensive juggernaut, not a defensive wall according to the help file. One last note: I think the fact that there rarely has ever been more than 2 active warlocks at a time says a lot about the class. It also says a lot that a warlock almost has to join a cabal a / tribunal to be effective in any type of pvp. That isn't supposed to be the case. Edit: Also the elemental timer absolutely sucks. If it dies or is dispelled you're effectively dead in the water for the duration of it's time which can be up to 27 minutes real time. |
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| Author: | archaicsmurf [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
Great discussion topic. I voted: Rogue, Bard, and Swashbuckler. Though I am not ranked in that order per se. I also think that certain priests are underpowered compared to others largely because if ineffective/useless religion spells. I think adding lighten load and remove compulsion to heavy and cloth was an intriguing idea, but some light armor priests who get no bonus spell also carry around a pretty abysmal religion spell. At the same time some heavy/cloth priests have insane religion spells that draw many players to that religion - so really they have +2 while some others have 0. It was impressed upon the pbase that Light armor faiths would receive no extra spell because, apparently, those religion spells were already pretty great (in the case of Thuban, Sadr, Ain, and Zavi that may be the case). But across the board that simply isn't true. |
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| Author: | archaicsmurf [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
Kin makes a strong point that warlocks should be able to immediately conjure another elemental as soon as one returns or is dispelled. In addition, a warlock SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE ABLE TO 'free elemental' and conjure another one right after. Warlocks do not get summon or gate or word of recall, so leaving behind an elemental in some situations is inevitable and devastating and they shouldn't be carrying 20+ recall vials in the event something happens. A sorcerer has ultimate customization available to them instantly. For example: I'm going into a situation where captain stern waish is better than losquaty, release charm on los, summon captain, c charm. Done. Whereas a warlock may be confronted by the following: Oh I really could use a water elemental for their reach advantage, or an earth elemental for their high HP pool, too bad I have this air elemental with a 20 minute timer left. So. For the sake of keeping this from becomming a warlock thread and maintaining the subject. Warlocks could make huge strides as a class with some MINOR tweaks. |
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| Author: | laeZ1 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
Speaking on behalf of the swashbucklers, what would happen, balance-wise if they were allowed to learn more weapon skills? Would that be going overboard? I know that your ability with the weapon your opponent uses factors into your ability to disarm them, so I imagine it also factors into parrying and dodging (though, as always, I could be completely wrong). |
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| Author: | Kin [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
laeZ1 wrote: Speaking on behalf of the swashbucklers, what would happen, balance-wise if they were allowed to learn more weapon skills? Would that be going overboard? I know that your ability with the weapon your opponent uses factors into your ability to disarm them, so I imagine it also factors into parrying and dodging (though, as always, I could be completely wrong). Giving swashies weapon skills wouldn't help them at all. Finesse limits their weapon choices. The problem with swashies is that their defensive abilities are offset by accuracy boosts from the other classes. Specialization and Berserk / Fury both give huge accuracy bonuses. When paired with massive weapons, it ensures that a swashbuckler, even a fully buffed one, has very little chance to parry / riposte their weapons and the light armor just has them get absolutely ripped through. Blind fighting offsets the only advantage swashies have, dirt kicking. In order to fix swashies, it'd take probably a massive overhaul of the weapon system in general or less ways to attain accuracy so they can actually parry / riposte stuff again. I'm honestly not sure what would be the best way to go about it.. |
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| Author: | patrisaurus [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which classes are underpowered? |
I think that finesse bonus or no, DW whips from the second row could be very powerful. Finesse doesn't limit their weapon choices, it just provides a significant incentive to use the bonused ones, a la specialize. |
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