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Elves should get max charisma
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24717		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ninja_ardith [ Sat May 17, 2014 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Elves should get max charisma
After playing an elf for over 2 years real time, I was able to get her to the second age tick and get that boost to the charisma stat. Elves start out with a charisma that is 1 point away from the maximum, the highest of any playable race. No PC race can start off fresh with inspirational charisma. I don't understand why.

Here's my reasoning:

1) I'm sure there's a slight bonus to xp gain from 24 to 25 charisma. But by the time you have a character aged high enough to have a natural charisma of 25 you should already be Grand master status. Even if you are a really slow leveler. It takes over 2 years of actual time to age an elf character where they can get any such xp bonus from that extra point. So there's going to be no benefit in the xp department.

2) So few classes actually gain benefits from having high charisma, with the exception of bards it usually boils down to 1 skill in the class skillset that actually uses charisma. My character is a mercenary so she gets an amazing 3 skills: haggle, rallying cry, and retreat. High charisma seems to not be all that useful with haggle. I don't notice any difference, at all between what my human hellion, and my elf mercenary get via prices with haggle. I don't think the selling portion of haggle even works. I'm sure there's some miniscule bonus to retreat with the higher charisma, but the % used up remains at 2. The only thing I've noticed getting any better is rallying cry, and rallying cry is not game breaking.

3) Bard songs are not overpowering. The only song that was OP was songs of sleep and it no longer hits with the full penalty at the outset. Furtheremore there already exists two combos that be twinked with a certain cabal to hit inspirational charisma, which is a much more appealing option than waiting 2 years for an age bonus.

4) By far the best bonus of having high charisma was the brutal intimidate and sanctuary checks given for it. This has obviously been wimped as you can no longer traipse through cities with a sanctuary spell and not get attacked by lawl NPCs etc.


Code:
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 o [Attributes] Tolene Nir'Careth, Soldier of the Heavenly Night Sky         o
 o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o
 o    Status: Grand Master(1)   Race: Elf              Class: Mercenary      o
 o       Age: 229                Sex: Female            Size: Medium         o
 o Alignment: Scrupulous   Handiness: Left handed   Religion: Alshain        o
 o      Born: Heat 27, 1098                         Birthday: 11 days        o
 o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o
 o       STR: Powerful           INT: Dim                WIS: Clever         o
 o       DEX: Nimble             CON: Durable            CHA: Inspirational  o
 o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o
 o Carrying capacity: 16 items with a maximum weight of 265.0 pounds.        o
 oOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOo
Author:  Cordance [ Sat May 17, 2014 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
There is one thing you forgot to mention. Care to let us know what kind of a change it makes to order lag? Which was the first thing that popped into my mind when it came to balance reasons when it came to that. More for elven sorcerors than mercs.
Author:  ninja_ardith [ Sat May 17, 2014 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
Cordance wrote:
There is one thing you forgot to mention. Care to let us know what kind of a change it makes to order lag? Which was the first thing that popped into my mind when it came to balance reasons when it came to that. More for elven sorcerors than mercs.


Once you hit influential charisma there's really no difference in how much order lag you have. You're still going to be down for about a round.

Ordering should be the least of your worries now that tribunal guards really don't do much.
Author:  Ajon [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
I thought a pretty important Hammer skill was based on charisma? Curious if this is just some random thing i made up after I stopped playing. If it isn't, I wonder how useful that one would be.
Author:  Baldric [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
You are correct that the hammer skill is based on charisma.

I agree that elves should get 25 cha. delves get 25 int, gnomes get 25 wis, giants get 25 str, sprites get 25 dex, dwarves get 25 con, but nobody gets 25 cha. There would be a nice symmetry there.

Also, elves are not one of the strongest races, and would not become one of the most powerful races if they got 25 charisma. They are weak to iron and negative energy, and are not the best choice for any class, except arguably bard. And I would do Halfling bard before I did elf bard.
Author:  amandagreathouse [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
You make a fair point.

I think one of the things that makes elves one of the most playable races for someone wanting a long game type character is their lifespan. I feel like tying it to aging in that way works as a double edged sword if I'm understanding how charisma is working with them properly. Yes, it gives you something that will change/improve far down the road but... good luck getting it there without FOREVER going by first. That kinda thing.
Author:  ninja_ardith [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
Baldric wrote:
You are correct that the hammer skill is based on charisma.

I agree that elves should get 25 cha. delves get 25 int, gnomes get 25 wis, giants get 25 str, sprites get 25 dex, dwarves get 25 con, but nobody gets 25 cha. There would be a nice symmetry there.

Also, elves are not one of the strongest races, and would not become one of the most powerful races if they got 25 charisma. They are weak to iron and negative energy, and are not the best choice for any class, except arguably bard. And I would do Halfling bard before I did elf bard.


Elf mercenary is ridiculously good.
Author:  Baldric [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
Well you certainly keep saying so.
Author:  Baranov [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
I'm pretty sure any race class combo is good when wielded by someone with extensive experience in Shattered Kingdoms.
Author:  ninja_ardith [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elves should get max charisma
Baranov wrote:
I'm pretty sure any race class combo is good when wielded by someone with extensive experience in Shattered Kingdoms.


Not true. Rogues and swashbucklers are still trash, and certain races are just not as good as others.
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