| Shattered Kingdoms https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/ |
|
| Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25012 |
Page 1 of 3 |
| Author: | Aust [ Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
I would like to talk a little bit about the dodge skill and its availability to classes. Way back when, the skill was not prominently featured nearly entirely across the board; specifically, barbarians and paladins didn't have it. Arguments were made then that, thankfully, resulted in the inclusion of the dodge skill into their kits. An unintentional and perhaps awkward byproduct of that is that now the priest is the only class in the game that lacks the skill. I wanted to open up a discussion as to how we look at that in game terms. This isn't exactly an argument that is intended to whine about giving priests dodge, just how we view the skill in the first place and how 'basic' a skill we would like it to be. Do we want it to be basic and intrinsic to gameplay mechanics of the game enough that all classes should have it and make it available to priests? Would you be more swayed to argue its removal from Warlocks, Sorcerers and Necromancers to make the skill geared more towards classes meant for taking damage and more likely to be in the front lines of battle and focus those caster classes to roles dubbed as “glass cannons”? Would you be more willing to adding to the customizability inherent in priests with faith in regards to their heavy, light and cloth armor choices and adding dodge to one? Which one? Cloth because they need it more as an option to mitigate damage as the other squishy casters do? Heavy because those deities are more “battle priest” nature of fighting good and evil and therefore would have received more melee training? Light because uhhh…? What are your thoughts on this, if any! |
|
| Author: | jreid_1985 [ Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
Im all for giving them dodge and even parry, but its not likely to happen. |
|
| Author: | Aust [ Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
jreid_1985 wrote: Im all for giving them dodge and even parry, but its not likely to happen. Parry is an interesting thought, but that would mean they would put them at an arguably equal footing in the number of defensive skills that Paladins and Hellions have. In my opinion, the Holy and Unholy warriors of the gods should always win out on paper in terms of what martial training they went through as an RP standpoint. It all depends how "battle priesty" Dulrik envisions the SK priest, if at all. Game mechanic wise as it is right now, the priest is geared towards not even wielding weapons at all at Grandmaster. They are more used to brandish staves and cast his or her spells, unless we wish to change that to something like the traditional AD&D cleric. Something to consider is that even if parry were added, out of their current kit they have dagger, staffs, maces and flail, and flail is a no-parry weapon leaving them only three types to work with. |
|
| Author: | woahboy [ Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
Aust wrote: Something to consider is that even if parry were added, out of their current kit they have dagger, staffs, maces and flail, and flail is a no-parry weapon leaving them only three types to work with. Priests get more weapon skills than swashies! Boycott! |
|
| Author: | Travorn [ Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
I have always seem dodge as a universal skill. Someone throws a rock at you, you're not going to just stand there, regardless of what occupation you have chosen. They throw a punch at you, you're not just going to hope they only knock one tooth out. The other defences take more skill to use than a simple dodge. I know that this is SK, and I don't expect this change to be made, but it seems to be a more logical addition, or substitution. |
|
| Author: | Aust [ Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
jreid_1985 wrote: Im all for giving them dodge and even parry, but its not likely to happen. Travorn wrote: I know that this is SK, and I don't expect this change to be made Here's a question though, why are we so pessimistic about change/tweak taking place just as long as a rational push is made towards an implementation? Even if this one case doesn't happen, I recall that Dulrik was hesitant (<--euphemism!) to add dodge to paladins and barbarians, and there are a lot of cases where things have been implemented in game that have come through player suggestions and ideas. Never stop at least voicing your opinions on how to improve things in game, ideas are ideas, even if some are terrible and get the stinky thumbs down. |
|
| Author: | Travorn [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
A valid question and something that I had been thinking on for a bit. I think, at least from my own perspective, there is a sense of if it isn't already in the game, there is a sense that it more than likely won't be. Not that it shouldn't be brought up. It is the wrong attitude to have, the pessimism. If it is a logical decision to make, and fits in with the vision of the game, Dulrik has shown that he is receptive to thought out arguments for or against something. I do stand by my stance that dodge should be a universal skill, given to all classes. It is the most basic of defenses there is. Even children do it without much training (if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball). Shield block and parry both rely on some form of more advanced skill because they rely on having to have a piece of equipment. Anyone can get lucky blocking or parrying with a shield or weapon, respectively, but it takes more skill and dedication to use a piece of equipment than it does to simply move out of the way. I disagree that parry be given to priests. They aren't known for their weapon finessing. |
|
| Author: | Volgacks [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
Quote: I do stand by my stance that dodge should be a universal skill, given to all classes. It is the most basic of defenses there is. Even children do it without much training (if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball). Shield block and parry both rely on some form of more advanced skill because they rely on having to have a piece of equipment. Anyone can get lucky blocking or parrying with a shield or weapon, respectively, but it takes more skill and dedication to use a piece of equipment than it does to simply move out of the way. I disagree that parry be given to priests. They aren't known for their weapon finessing. The one thing that isn't mentioned is that there is a system that isn't out right stated for dodging without skill. It is the unseen AC someone has. Even without the Skill Shield block, people still benefit from a shield. Enemies will simply miss or deflect off armor because of holding a shield not having the skill. And a person's Dex can be seen as there innate ability to dodge. With dex, enemies will miss a person with high dex more then a low dex. |
|
| Author: | Vinnen [ Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
"Dodge" might be a basic skill, but I don't think a priest who spends most of their time praying and doing priestly abilities would ever come close to the same level of dodging attacks as say a merc or swashbuckler. But dexterity and armor do increase the likely chance someone will "miss" you and so far in my experience people don't tend to dodge ranged attacks (not sure about thrown). |
|
| Author: | Travorn [ Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Get the hell outta Dodge [Skill Discussion] |
Missing someone is a matter of mechanics not related to dodge, as far as I know. It relies on hit rolls, luck, dexterity and other related things. Missing is on the person using the weapon, mostly, not the person standing there. Sure, the person standing there gets some dexterity bonus for the other person not landing a hit. Sorcerers, the scholarly people who study, research and scribe things, often times sitting around, probably as much, if not more so than a priest, get the dodge skill. Warlocks, people who often stand behind their elemental and another pet, usually flying, dodge. Are they comparable to a mercenary or swashbuckler, especially in terms of dexterity? I certainly do not think they are. My guess is that either these classes need to have the skill removed, or priest should be considered to gain it, by this logic presented. |
|
| Page 1 of 3 | All times are UTC - 8 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|