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Why? Why not? : Symbols
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25201		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Baranov [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Why? Why not? : Symbols
I understand that a good deal of the staff's objective leans towards promoting player interaction, not further dividing it. That being said, I recall a time when symbols were objects of great power, why not revisit that concept?

Already, a symbol's runes don't benefit the wearer if they are not in the religion. Compound this with the limited access to priests of one's religion to grant the sacred spell, be it buff oriented of course. So why not allow symbols to cast the sacred spell upon the wearer, or on a targeted enemy be it an offensive spell?

Albeit it is quite the powerful possibility. Warriors dedicated to Dulrik being granted a brief but immensely draining moment of sight could certainly toss in some balance issues. A paladin belonging to Alshain making sure he's always got a small chance at life again. A hellion loyal to Sargas who can guarantee now without his clergy, that he knows the enemy's sanctuary won't heel his blade...
If the spell was offensive and wielded by a non-caster, the arts limitation might help combat an imbalance; as well as the obvious mana drain. If the spell is a buff, it is still likely to drain a substantial amount of mana from the bearer if they're not suited to the task of course.

I could go on and on to the potential ramifications, I just wanted to put the idea out there. In part so that players belonging to a religion can get a bit more out of it, and due to symbol-nostalgia.
Author:  woahboy [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
Religious spells would need to be balanced before I personally could ever support this.

There's already trouble getting priests to join religions with [REDACTED] spells, this would further compound that by giving non-priests a reason to pick the faiths based on good spells.
Author:  Lumiere [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
Religions should be removed from PK.

Spirit aura should work for everyone.
Protection should work for everyone.
Symbols should have no enchants.
Religion only spells should be balanced out or removed, and kept to clergy
Author:  Meissa [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
Lumiere wrote:
Religions should be removed from PK


:o

Completely completely disagree with this. In fact, let's talk about SK religious nostalgia. It used to be common for faiths to physically, rather than simply idealistically, oppose each other. Now, it's more likely you will see an Ainite and a Marfikian breaking bread. While religious spells vary in effectiveness and usefulness, they are, theoretically anyway, designed like cabal powers in that they are thematic boons that give the faithful an advantage over the heathens.

Spirit aura should not be available to everyone. In SK, the spiritual bond that one has with his or her ancestors fractured when his or her heart is given to the divine. This makes perfect sense: Instead of seeking the blessings of your dead relatives, you are now placing your faith in the divine for protection. Cake; have it or eat it.

I think symbols and totems are fine, too.
Author:  Valkyrion [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
Meissa wrote:
Now, it's more likely you will see an Ainite and a Marfikian breaking bread.


This is why the IMMs are given the ability to use that curse feature.
Author:  ladyjennbo [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
Meissa wrote:

Now, it's more likely you will see an Ainite and a Marfikian breaking bread.


YOU LET ME KNOW IF YOU SEE THIS HAPPEN :rant:

Lumiere wrote:
Religions should be removed from PK


WAT

Religions in SK are some of the best RP opportunities in the entire freaking game. TROLL keeps TROLLIN
Author:  Lumiere [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
Let me clarify my position:

The difference between having joined one religion, or having joined another, or being a pantheist, should not be that relevant in PK.

My character would have joined XYZ religion if it wasn't underpowering to him. I am not going to sacrifice my PK potential just so I can join X religion and not Y religion. I would really just rather roleplay as a pantheist who loves X religion but who has an invented reason why he cannot join the church. I have, in fact, already sacrificed some PK potential just to join the cabal I like.

Religions should be RP institutions, they should not be PK institutions. If I want to roll a priestess of Meissa because I like the RP, I should not spend my whole character being laughed at for choosing a crappy regeneration spell over Aludra's, which is one of the best defensive spells in the game, or Mira's incredible utility spell, or Ain's incredible offense spell.

It's funny to hear Meissa herself refuting this. I know one Meissa priestess in the game and I feel sorry for her.

People should join or not join religions because they want to RP it, without having to consider whether or not they will be underpowering their character for doing so. Anyone who fights in the front row, and so risks losing spirit aura, has to make this consideration. This is why Lumiere is not part of the Dulrik religion. He's already sufficiently underpowered for having joined the cabal whose RP I like, and I have no desire to further underpower him by joining the religion whose RP I like.

This game randomly punishes people for making the 'wrong' RP decisions without first sloughing through a mountain of hidden information to figure out which are the 'correct' ones.
Author:  Baranov [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
Lumiere wrote:
Let me clarify my position:

The difference between having joined one religion, or having joined another, or being a pantheist, should not be that relevant in PK.

My character would have joined XYZ religion if it wasn't underpowering to him. I am not going to sacrifice my PK potential just so I can join X religion and not Y religion. I would really just rather roleplay as a pantheist who loves X religion but who has an invented reason why he cannot join the church. I have, in fact, already sacrificed some PK potential just to join the cabal I like.

Religions should be RP institutions, they should not be PK institutions. If I want to roll a priestess of Meissa because I like the RP, I should not spend my whole character being laughed at for choosing a crappy regeneration spell over Aludra's, which is one of the best defensive spells in the game, or Mira's incredible utility spell, or Ain's incredible offense spell.


It's funny to hear Meissa herself refuting this. I know one Meissa priestess in the game and I feel sorry for her.

People should join or not join religions because they want to RP it, without having to consider whether or not they will be underpowering their character for doing so. Anyone who fights in the front row, and so risks losing spirit aura, has to make this consideration. This is why Lumiere is not part of the Dulrik religion. He's already sufficiently underpowered for having joined the cabal whose RP I like, and I have no desire to further underpower him by joining the religion whose RP I like.

This game randomly punishes people for making the 'wrong' RP decisions without first sloughing through a mountain of hidden information to figure out which are the 'correct' ones.


Unfortunately, for the most part, he is correct. If you want to be competitive in PK (optimally speaking) it is best to choose a religion that has a great buff spell and readily available clergy. That's why the war cult was(is) so popular. There are plenty of great RP opportunities and reasons for Sargasians, but you can't deny the quantitative boons given to those players through the sacred spell.

That being said, I don't think that choosing a given religion for just its RP is going to underpower said player. A mercenary is STILL very formidable and perfectly capable regardless of a religious buff.

Meissa's spell should be a mirror of Dabi's sacred spell, just positive energy based.
Author:  Meissa [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
I didn't refute anything; I disagreed with the notion that religion should be "removed from PK."

I acknowledged that the spells are greatly varied in usefulness. I have been a huge advocate for balance in the religious spells; however, that is neither here nor there with your initial, brief post that simply seems to state that all religions should be equal and to hell with the flavor that the varied enchants and spells bring. Dulrik has gotten sick and tired of me championing the cause for buffing the Meissan spell, for instance, and there are others that need work, also.

So ... please don't put arguments in my mouth, Lumiere.

People who want to roleplay will do so regardless of the faith spell, and as Baranov said, not be "broken" because of it.
Author:  Opey [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why? Why not? : Symbols
How can anyone make an argument against buffing the meissan religion spell?
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