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A Couple of Thoughts
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25225		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Baranov [ Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  A Couple of Thoughts
Thought #1:

I've seen a number of discussions over-viewing the merits and drawbacks of MR barbarians. However, with the barbarian theme being linked to the ancestors, assuming they didn't join a religion, I always thought it might fit. Shamans' spells should be able to bypass magical resistance on barbarians. Sorcerers draw from the arcane, priests from the divine power of the gods. It makes some sense that a barbarian who has honed his hatred of magic should be able to resist powers like these, at least when it stems from mortals.
However, a shaman's power flows from the spirits and the ancestors, so if a shaman chooses to heal a barbarian who resists normally, the barbarian should be able to benefit from that healing. On the other side of the coin if a shaman summons lightning from the skies, a barbarian should be able to feel the wrath of those ancestors.

Now, this would only apply to those spells directly cast by a shaman. Therefore a heal brewed from a shaman would not bypass, nor would a vial of spirit aura. The aura of negation would still be able to flare and remove shamanistic buff spells. Were a barbarian fighting a shaman and his aura flared, he could still remove the shaman's aura and subsequent boons. I think of the aura as an aggressive expansion of an anti-magic zone. Whereas, when a shaman targets a berserker with a spell, the magic resistance will cow in the face of ancestral powers.
Too much of a buff or debuff to MR barbarians? Tell me what you think.

Thought #2:

Humans are the most versatile race of SK and are good all around, we all know this to be true. Humans also receive a +3 to the cap of their primary stat based on their class. I would like to see a loyalty token cost during creation that would allow a player creating a human to choose their primary stat.

Let us say a veteran wants to make a mercenary who would focus on tanking, spend a few points, and tadaa, now your dexterity is the stat chosen to get that +3 instead of strength. This can also fit with character RP archetypes. Some of us certainly try to come up with back-stories and the like to fit our characters. A human swashbuckler gets created, so he elects to spend those loyalty tokens to change the primary to his CHA instead. Depending on the plans of the player this could help hone their character to fit a niche they've carved out for them. A paladin or hellion could then choose where their focus lies; more mana, more concentration, faster response from guards in a tribunal? Whatever.

Note that this idea would also apply to half-elves and their +1 to the primary stat dictated by class sphere: warriors/clergy/adventurers/mages.
Author:  Yed [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Couple of Thoughts
I always liked the idea of tying barbarians and MR barbarians specifically more closely to shamans. I kinda wanted to see pantheist barbarians' exp cost "flipped" in regard to shamans' raise dead vs priests' resurrection.

In the early days of MR barbarians, they were affected by spirit aura. My MR test barb got torn up by a couple buff-shamans. I like the thought of a shaman being able to pray over an MR barbarian, but an MR barbarian running around with sanc + armor + bless AND getting healed by his friendly neighborhood shaman is a bit overkill.
Author:  Baranov [ Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Couple of Thoughts
Dabi wrote:
I like the thought of a shaman being able to pray over an MR barbarian, but an MR barbarian running around with sanc + armor + bless AND getting healed by his friendly neighborhood shaman is a bit overkill.


I had the same reservations about this. Part of how I justified it to myself is that for an MR barbarian to benefit from those spells given by his shaman buddy he is then forced to give up one of his(now regarded as) more powerful abilities. Aura of negation, to my knowledge, attempts to purge the barbarian of present magical effects on them in addition to its other use. So if a barbarian wants to use that skill to purge an enemy player or npc of their (probably numerous) buffs, they will have to give up their own beneficiary spells. True, the shaman could likely re-establish armor or bless on the barbarian shortly afterwards, but if its a tough fight, chances are those boons will have to wait until the spam healing is done. Sanctuary of course could not be given mid-combat.
Author:  Anjin [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Couple of Thoughts
MR barbies and shaman is a great thematic idea, but it would need to balance out. It's hard to imagine heal+armor+bless+sanc+spirit aura? on a barb who bounces all offensive magic. Good thematic idea, too OP.

I love the idea about letting humans/half-elves place their stat. I think loyalty tokens are coded nepotism. Why don't we just let -everyone- do this, and make the stat recommended and not forced? Some potential examples:

Merc or barb: dex
Swash = str or cha
Priest = int
Shaman = dex
Paladin/Hellion = Pretty much anything
Rogue = str
Scout = str, cha
Sorc or necro = cha
Warlock = warlocks suck
Author:  Baranov [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Couple of Thoughts
Anjin wrote:
MR barbies and shaman is a great thematic idea, but it would need to balance out. It's hard to imagine heal+armor+bless+sanc+spirit aura? on a barb who bounces all offensive magic. Good thematic idea, too OP.

Remove spirit aura and you are correct. Spirit aura can not be cast on others, only the self. And I pointed out that vials brewed by shamans wouldn't bypass the MR. I would be perfectly content with allowing heal, stemming from a shaman, and only heal, to bypass an MR barbarian's MR. However, the idea was also for shamans to be a threat to barbarians, not just complement them in a formation.

Take your average MR barbarian. Armor is all AP, trinkets are about fixing up the stats, if you went the full 10 MR, you're not worried about saves. Not really.
Baranov wrote:
On the other side of the coin if a shaman summons lightning from the skies, a barbarian should be able to feel the wrath of those ancestors.

This was a singular example. The myriad of maledictions, spirit horde, call lightning, and flamestrike would all be able to bypass this MR. I am in no way shape or form denying that granting code towards this theme could potentially buff barbarians, but it would also make shamans the premier MR barbarian stoppers. Sure aura of negation might help in keeping the maledictions at bay, but if it's a tough fight chances are they're focusing on bashing, or too busy being bashed; not always time to react optimally. In the end, I would ask you to picture in your mind's eye a giant MR barbarian getting hit with a shaman's call lightning.
Author:  Anjin [ Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Couple of Thoughts
Thematic, but a serious balance issue.

We should focus this thread on letting humans and half-elves choose their att bonus. This would be cool and probably not a balance issue, since if they want XYZ stat they can just choose to not be a human or half-elf.

Edit: If you think about it, what you're proposing is basically a huge indirect buff to shamans. You should then analyze whether or not shamans need such a buff. I think they're a pretty baller class already without having barbarians grovelling at their feet.
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