Shattered Kingdoms :: View topic - Swashbuckler Primary Stat

Shattered Kingdoms has the following professions for player characters:
Mercenary -- strength
Swashbuckler -- dexterity
Barbarian -- strength

Priest -- wisdom
Paladin -- strength
Hellion -- strength
Shaman -- wisdom

Rogue -- dexterity
Scout -- dexterity
Bard -- charisma

Sorcerer -- intelligence
Warlock -- intelligence
Necromancer -- intelligence

Yeah, I'd for some reason, perhaps incorrect, carried the notion that finesse was a dex-based skill, meaning that higher dex meant higher accuracy with finesse weapons, much like the weapon finesse feat from DnD 3.5. I do know that finesse certainly means higher "AC" with respect to straight misses also, but obviously in PvP that doesn't carry over at all.

Edoras wrote:

You aren't wrong. Accuracy has always been based on DEX. Maybe that is not spelled out in the help anywhere? If so, it must be because I thought it was obvious...

Strength is the measure of raw physical power. It allows a character to
lift more weight without tiring. In combat, someone who has more strength
might deal a more destructive blow to another character, or control the
weapon more effectively (as in the ability to start or stop the motion of
a heavy weapon) thereby gaining a better chance of hitting the opponent.
It serves as a factor for other skills as well.

Edoras wrote:

You aren't wrong. Accuracy has always been based on DEX. Maybe that is not spelled out in the help anywhere? If so, it must be because I thought it was obvious...

Volgacks wrote:

I have always been curious about the contradictory nature of defensive stance. The help file states that the stance reduces accuracy which would mean that your would have a penalty to parry, but appears to increase various defense bonuses.

This is a good point. Back in the day, the penalty was being made to your "to hit" bonus, which was purely an offensive stat. Then "to hit" and accuracy (which has both offensive and defensive applications) got rolled together into one attribute, but was still being used in most of the same places as a de-buff to offense. I'd have to double check what the code is doing now, but probably could use some additional thought and tweaking.

Author:	Baranov [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Swashbuckler Primary Stat
This is about the default setting for the human primary statistic on swashbucklers. Quote: Shattered Kingdoms has the following professions for player characters: Mercenary -- strength Swashbuckler -- dexterity Barbarian -- strength Priest -- wisdom Paladin -- strength Hellion -- strength Shaman -- wisdom Rogue -- dexterity Scout -- dexterity Bard -- charisma Sorcerer -- intelligence Warlock -- intelligence Necromancer -- intelligence The swasbuckler class has undergone a few changes as of late, with a heavier emphasis having been placed on the importance of the charisma of a swashbuckler. I understand the wish to have swashbuckler as a dexterity based character, but it is no secret dexterity is way more important for ranged combat and for a class that is irrevocably bound to the front-lines strength makes more sense. More so considering that of the three main fighter classes 2/3 have strength, and one does not. Even (un)holy warriors have strength as their prime and they shouldn't even be in the front row most of the time. Thematically it might make sense that a dual wielder would have greater nimbleness than strength or sharp tongue, but in the cold harsh reality of Shattered Kingdoms it is a real damper on a class that has no choice but to get up close and personal with their enemies. If strength is too much to ask of a class whose theme is to be nimble, shift the focus towards, as the helpfile says, their being witty and give it to charisma. TLDR: Dex is an awful primary stat for a front row fighter class pls change.

Author:	Edoras [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
I dunno, I think being able to hit lightning dex is pretty nice as a front-liner. No other human warrior can do that without (REDACTED). That said, charisma is also very important for a swashbuckler.

Author:	Baranov [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
In the world of -especially- swashbucklers (and most others) accuracy is king. Dexterity in no way assists this light armored fighter class in the one thing they need most - accuracy. Both strength and charisma would greatly improved the swashbuckler's accuracy. Unless I am mistaken and dex boosts melee combat accuracy. When it comes to defense sure dex might be helpful, but dodge doesn't carry (sure it helps) the swash, parry and riposte do. When it comes to reducing or avoiding damage using buff spells is the only viable option (armor/protection/sanctuary). And please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Author:	Edoras [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
Yeah, I'd for some reason, perhaps incorrect, carried the notion that finesse was a dex-based skill, meaning that higher dex meant higher accuracy with finesse weapons, much like the weapon finesse feat from DnD 3.5. I do know that finesse certainly means higher "AC" with respect to straight misses also, but obviously in PvP that doesn't carry over at all.

Author:	patrisaurus [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
I'd vote Charisma.

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Author:	Dulrik [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
Edoras wrote: Yeah, I'd for some reason, perhaps incorrect, carried the notion that finesse was a dex-based skill, meaning that higher dex meant higher accuracy with finesse weapons, much like the weapon finesse feat from DnD 3.5. I do know that finesse certainly means higher "AC" with respect to straight misses also, but obviously in PvP that doesn't carry over at all. You aren't wrong. Accuracy has always been based on DEX. Maybe that is not spelled out in the help anywhere? If so, it must be because I thought it was obvious...

Author:	Edoras [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
So accuracy is based on dex for all melee attacks? That's extremely interesting, I would have thought it based on strength for anything besides swashie finesse.

Author:	Volgacks [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
Dulrik wrote: Edoras wrote: Yeah, I'd for some reason, perhaps incorrect, carried the notion that finesse was a dex-based skill, meaning that higher dex meant higher accuracy with finesse weapons, much like the weapon finesse feat from DnD 3.5. I do know that finesse certainly means higher "AC" with respect to straight misses also, but obviously in PvP that doesn't carry over at all. You aren't wrong. Accuracy has always been based on DEX. Maybe that is not spelled out in the help anywhere? If so, it must be because I thought it was obvious... Quote: Strength is the measure of raw physical power. It allows a character to lift more weight without tiring. In combat, someone who has more strength might deal a more destructive blow to another character, or control the weapon more effectively (as in the ability to start or stop the motion of a heavy weapon) thereby gaining a better chance of hitting the opponent. It serves as a factor for other skills as well. So do you mean just for Swashie's or all classes. And wouldn't strength then add to that?

Author:	Avenel [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
Dulrik wrote: Edoras wrote: Yeah, I'd for some reason, perhaps incorrect, carried the notion that finesse was a dex-based skill, meaning that higher dex meant higher accuracy with finesse weapons, much like the weapon finesse feat from DnD 3.5. I do know that finesse certainly means higher "AC" with respect to straight misses also, but obviously in PvP that doesn't carry over at all. You aren't wrong. Accuracy has always been based on DEX. Maybe that is not spelled out in the help anywhere? If so, it must be because I thought it was obvious... I know accuracy is based on Dex for ranged. Is this from the to hit/accuracy merge? With it rolled together now, is dexterity contributing towards accuracy just not as much as strength? Dulrik wrote: Volgacks wrote: I have always been curious about the contradictory nature of defensive stance. The help file states that the stance reduces accuracy which would mean that your would have a penalty to parry, but appears to increase various defense bonuses. This is a good point. Back in the day, the penalty was being made to your "to hit" bonus, which was purely an offensive stat. Then "to hit" and accuracy (which has both offensive and defensive applications) got rolled together into one attribute, but was still being used in most of the same places as a de-buff to offense. I'd have to double check what the code is doing now, but probably could use some additional thought and tweaking. I am just guessing while trying to make sense of this, as it does not feel like Dex contributes much.

Author:	Dulrik [ Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Swashbuckler Primary Stat
Wrote a long response to this and then accidentally deleted it. Much shorter second try: I can see why there is some confusion. I will try to explain: Accuracy is a game mechanic as reported by affects and identify. When I talk about "accuracy" I mean this game mechanic, not your probability to hit someone. Strength gives a bonus to hit with melee attacks. Dex gives a bonus to hit with ranged attacks. Neither of these bonuses are the accuracy mechanic. Accuracy is a mechanic that improves not only your chance to hit with any weapon but also other checks such as parry and disarm. Accuracy is improved by spells and enchantments and skills, but you still get baseline accuracy from dexterity. Not from strength at all. Offensive melee fighters should care most about str, although dex still has a role. Defensive melee fighters should care equally and maybe more about dex over str. Ranged fighters should doubly care about dexterity, although str still has a role. The swashbuckler class is about finesse over brute strength. So their skills use accuracy even more than other classes. This is why their primary attribute is dexterity.

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