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| Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26007 |
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| Author: | Cordance [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
I am curious what people think regarding if Shattered kingdoms had a rule book similar to something from an RPG pen and paper game. A rule book would take a lot of mystery from the game but lets face it most of the top end players have figured out the rules as best they can via testing to the point where even testing can sometimes prove more useful than the memory of the code base. Personally I would push for a rules in help files for example if every skill had a attribute tag on it. Examples being [Skills help] [Dex] finesse or [Spells help] charm person [Will power]. That would at least be a start to see if it helps new players get a grasp of the game. One point I will mention is remember new players might not have the same assumptions as you because they are not years deep into a similar RPG, or worse they may have the completely wrong assumptions because they play an RPG different. There is a lot of assumed knowledge in SK which puts newer players in a weak position. Intelligence helps your skill improves is in a help file where charm person targeting the willpower save is not. |
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| Author: | Forsooth [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
The problem with "more mechanic transparency" is that the valuable knowledge isn't easily summarized. New players have the character build guide forum, so they don't cripple their characters before making Mentor. But that's a far cry from knowing the locales, items, and successful tactics. There's enough to keep an Explorer-type busy for hundreds of hours. The more practical way to get started is to join a group and learn from experienced players. This fits with SK requiring character interaction and encouraging in-game experience. I'm not sure how much interest there would be in switching things around. |
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| Author: | jreid_1985 [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
The issue then would be if those experienced few would be willing to divulge information. I dont think cordance is asking for complete transparency, but some more would nice, especially with who lists being smaller, thus having less people to learn and interact with. Dulrik recently touched on dexterity and strength in regards to accuracy etc. I was really surprised and thankful that he did because there has been a common misconception about the melee accuracy mechanic for over a decade. I really do feel that hidden mechanics do put newbies in a weak position. It stands to reason that some newbies may give up in frustration and opt to play something else, but giving them a few small bread crumbs could possibly change that. |
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| Author: | Cordance [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
Jreid is right about my reasoning. When time is the biggest barrier to playing SK. We should be giving the tools to those who wish to use them to help limit their time. I would push for in game books to get written about it the issue with that is the code changes and it is a huge huge investment of time for a player to learn about things. So that miss information hurts worse than not knowing sometimes. There are a few levels of information we as players could use and it comes down to what D wants to share. Using charm person as an example. I dont know know for sure I have the information right Im just going from all know formation I have. 1)Charm person attacks the subjects will save. Add [will save] to the helpfile of charm person. (currently there is mention of it in an example of saves helpfile but its not simple to find) 2)Charm person attacks the subjects will save, this puts the casters art vs defenders will save bonus. With the result impacting the subjects normal wisdom based saving throw vs the casters intelligence. 3)Charm person forces the subject to make a will save following this equation. Follow big string of maths basically the code for calculating it. Mentioning that art can only reduce the save bonus they have to zero effectively etc. 3) Is not something I expect likely to be shared for a few reason if the code ever changes then the help file needs to be rewritten. Also D likes his DM screen. 2) Gives more information letting the player make educated choices and knowing somewhat how to alter the outcome with out letting them know details. 1) Is better than we have now it at least points people in the direction they should be looking. It is also a lot easier to add to all the helpfiles. It is also important to point out that D&D fifth edition has a new style of saving throws different from pathfinder and 3.5 D&D. Which means it is more likely that assumed wrong answers will happen in the future. Their system makes everything attack a save via a stat with classes get 2 saves they get a bonus on. If it is a matter of time for this to happen. I am willing to invest some time of my own to add tags to help files or help compile a list of to my best knowledge for someone else to edit the files. |
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| Author: | FinneyOwnzU [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
there is already a help file for saving throws so not sure what more u think needs to be done. it spells out the type of saving throw used against every major attack spell u will face in pk or pve - petrification, finger of death, magma spray, sleep, charm person, summon, blindness, curse and dispel magic. the help file also explains that u can increase ur reflex, willpower and fortitude saving throws by increasing ur character's dexterity, wisdom and constitution respectively. the identify spell tells u if a piece of gear has a reflex, willpower or a fortitude endowment. other than posting the formula, u can't get more transparent than that |
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| Author: | Cordance [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
FinneyOwnzU wrote: there is already a help file for saving throws so not sure what more u think needs to be done. it spells out the type of saving throw used against every major attack spell u will face in pk or pve - petrification, finger of death, magma spray, sleep, charm person, summon, blindness, curse and dispel magic. the help file also explains that u can increase ur reflex, willpower and fortitude saving throws by increasing ur character's dexterity, wisdom and constitution respectively. the identify spell tells u if a piece of gear has a reflex, willpower or a fortitude endowment. other than posting the formula, u can't get more transparent than that Finney I understand you are coming from a position of knowing most of the mechanics and how they work. Charm person was an example, Im talking about this should be added for all help files parry dodge (there is no mention of light load there) etc. Most of these are clear as day to anyone who has played RPGs before but what about someone who hasnt. The help file you mention isnt easy to stumble on. At least in my efforts to track down a newbie friendly path to it. My point is we should have this information easy to access not hard. If you read any recent RPG they try to give as much quick information about how something works before they give the details. This is because you want people at a glance to know what is going on then if they want to know more to dig deeper. Also side note what do you use to save against magic missile? |
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| Author: | jreid_1985 [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
Afaik m missile works similar to harm. There is no save but things like the shield spell or mp runes reduce damage taken. |
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| Author: | Edoras [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would SK be better with more mechanic transparency |
That is the case. IIRC, Magic Missile, harm and holy word are the only three damage spells with no save, I'm pretty sure all others have a save for taking half damage, and a saving throw is indicated through a different message with yellow colored text. The -overwhelming- majority of saveable damage spells are also reflex based, with the only exception being finger of death, I believe. I guess final strike is also technically a damage spell with no save? As an abbreviated list, Acid blast, spear of faith, hellfire, call lightning, along with every offensive warlock spell are all reflex based and you take half damage on a succesful save. Harm and magic missile always do the same damage and only have one message, unless the spell ends up doing zero damage, which is only going to happen through magical resistance or a very large amount of magical protection. There's a couple of cabal spells that are unlisted (and also would be unlisted in the help files) where there's perhaps a lack of clarity on whether they are will, reflex or fortitude saves, but for the majority of them, if you were to engage one in combat and resist them... well, you would at least be able to see whether your impairment was in one of those categories. |
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