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[*]figure out a way to empower players to generate dynamic meaningful RP for the remaining people that know the game relatively in-depth - i've been bashing my head against this wall, and I feel like I haven't come up with any genius ideas other than existing openly. this would require a genuine fundamental rework/rethinking of roles in SK that was previously and probably eternally is unthinkable/unacceptable. an idea in this vein is cabal leaders getting angel accesses + directorship of a non-main-city area.

I'm not very good at, nor do I enjoy "pretending" I'm doing something that means anything or is going to go anywhere when I know it doesn't and that it won't.

There's not much "RP" to do besides log on, sit in the astral lounge and talk borderline OOC with folks.

I know there's something to be said for "well everybody can't do whatever game-changing [REDACTED] they want it'd be a mess blahblahblah" but it seems to boil down to basically nothing happens ever.

Legion had Crucible and Harlie as well, the problem is this cross-section apparently only attracts fuckwits.

New content-zones quests/loot
More ways to earn tokens
New skills/adjustments
New class
New cabal
Incentives for imms to create and design content
Loosen restrictions on builders
Allow capable coders on the staff access to the code

Allow capable coders on the staff access to the code

I personally DMed Dulrik on Facebook to beg him to allow others access/come back about a year ago, as I'm shameless, but it was to no avail.

Maybe one of you who know him better could convince. (Other IMMs... or former IMMs.)

Author:	DeMoNiaC [ Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	So dead and sad
Well here we are 20 years later since joining these forums and its so dead. What can we do to revive this place and the mud as well?

Author:	ladyjennbo [ Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
show [REDACTED] on the tl

Author:	jerinx [ Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
unflatten the game from its current merc/fist meta chokepoint so that more classes are actually worthwhile more preparation for a 'graceful aging' period where systems require less admin interaction. the astral guild has actually done a lot of good for this, but more work to do. figure out a way to empower players to generate dynamic meaningful RP for the remaining people that know the game relatively in-depth - i've been bashing my head against this wall, and I feel like I haven't come up with any genius ideas other than existing openly. this would require a genuine fundamental rework/rethinking of roles in SK that was previously and probably eternally is unthinkable/unacceptable. an idea in this vein is cabal leaders getting angel accesses + directorship of a non-main-city area. a critical social mass that presently feels unlikely. I think it entails engaging in more healthy, inclusive social conversations across different sub-forums (e.g. i low-key love the_me posting random music they're listening to in the bazaar). I think that also must be in combination with enough new or returning players that we reach a critical mass of organic conversation that is engaging (see: healthy social interactions) and low stress (e.g. person doesn't feel pressured to engage to keep the system going). I feel like there's enough of community development/engagement white papers out there now that confer some neat ideas around the previous point. We just are an old enough fossil of an ecosystem that we didn't have that 'shared language' back when we were up against the need for those concepts - probably had some lessons to learn about telling trash people to leave sooner, and being more open with wiki-style information (this game predates wikipedia, so hard to throw stones on that one) problem here is most of the people who'd be genuinely entertaining to engage with OOC have already developed social ecosystems outside of the forums or outgrew the game or need for these social ecosystems 15 years ago. we might honestly luck out if an absolute implosion of major social exchanges (lol twitter) sends people looking for that fix, but the chance they look for this over other major social exchanges is infinitesimal. more likely to cash out a 2 billion dollar lotto ticket. That's all easier said than done, but that's my 10,000 foot view filtered through a poorly punctuated stream of consciousness.

Author:	TacoRobot [ Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
jerinx wrote: [*]figure out a way to empower players to generate dynamic meaningful RP for the remaining people that know the game relatively in-depth - i've been bashing my head against this wall, and I feel like I haven't come up with any genius ideas other than existing openly. this would require a genuine fundamental rework/rethinking of roles in SK that was previously and probably eternally is unthinkable/unacceptable. an idea in this vein is cabal leaders getting angel accesses + directorship of a non-main-city area. This is honestly the big thing for me, I'm finding. In my years away from SK, I've engaged more with "games" that basically amount to cooperative writing/storytelling (MUSHes, for those familiar). The problem I have nowadays with SK is...well. The fact that I literally can't "do" anything. I've been back for 5 months now and have done near to 0 meaningful RP on my character just because I don't have the energy or "skill" to knowingly beat my head against that wall when I know it won't go anywhere. I have a big problem with trying to tell "story" that I know isn't going to go anywhere because it would require stuff like area changes, other players to play along (and stick with their character for more than 2 weeks), a bunch of imm support, etc etc etc. I'm not very good at, nor do I enjoy "pretending" I'm doing something that means anything or is going to go anywhere when I know it doesn't and that it won't. There's not much "RP" to do besides log on, sit in the astral lounge and talk borderline OOC with folks. I know there's something to be said for "well everybody can't do whatever game-changing [REDACTED] they want it'd be a mess blahblahblah" but it seems to boil down to basically nothing happens ever. --- On a genuinely unrelated note, for the love of god, can we kill the Legion and/or break it off from the MC please. We have a who list of 10 peacekeepers + 2 randos more often than not, and the Peacekeeper roster is Hammer, Fist, Harlequin, Druid and probably even [REDACTED] Crucible for all I know, while the Legion roster (when there is a Legion) is only MC because the faction is RP-tied to ICly serve the MC and most people not in the MC aren't going to want to sign up for that. Like, forget the RP. Forget everything. Just change this already. IDGAF if it ICly makes sense.

Author:	jerinx [ Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
TacoRobot wrote: I'm not very good at, nor do I enjoy "pretending" I'm doing something that means anything or is going to go anywhere when I know it doesn't and that it won't. There's not much "RP" to do besides log on, sit in the astral lounge and talk borderline OOC with folks. I know there's something to be said for "well everybody can't do whatever game-changing [REDACTED] they want it'd be a mess blahblahblah" but it seems to boil down to basically nothing happens ever. This is kind of the real crux. You're right. It's built into the fundamental design of SK that it relies on a critical mass to be functional, and I think it's unprepared for aging gracefully/getting kicked to the retirement home. Not really a stone to throw about it, just kind of acknowledging it. It's a yellowed Asteroids cabinet in the back corner that's been left on free play, when a meaningful path forward requires a framework for player self-administration - which is honestly against the ethos of SK's underlying structure. There's likely a way to establish a consistent 'gold standard' version of SK and its areas, and then that cycle back to it as appropriate or once every six months, moving to a season-like structure hand-waved away as a curse of Achernar or through - dare I say - Achernar's murder. Then let cabal leaders get angel rights and let them [REDACTED] the game up. And if the changes are cool enough and petitioned enough, let there be a mechanism to easily dynamically incorporate changes to areas into the 'gold standard' and persist through seasons. I am not smart enough to figure the brass tacks of a solution out. I can speak to the fact that various changes on the admin side make SK feel like it is much closer to being capable of a player self-administration potential than most MUDs (with the way training wheels work with ascending players), but I think it's still such a dynamic shift that requires enough coding as to be unthinkable. I also can't overstate how those ideas are absolutely contrary to everything I know about how D runs/ran the game. It was hard enough to get a consistent crop of people who wanted to be admins to not be trash, me being part of the trash side of things sometimes. Legion had Crucible and Harlie as well, the problem is this cross-section apparently only attracts fuckwits. I don't think there's a reasonable solution because the opposite/equal problem if a rebirthed HAND is the balancing act - you'd never see MC in it, and when there was HAND there was a reason that section of the game was the one to die. Everything was on the table at that time, and it was a numbers/RP game that made those decisions. The game hurts for an Uxmaln merchant's guild.

Shattered Kingdoms https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/

So dead and sad https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26917	Page 1 of 2

Author:	TacoRobot [ Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
jerinx wrote: Legion had Crucible and Harlie as well, the problem is this cross-section apparently only attracts fuckwits. I think the disconnect here is that IC, in terms of RP, if you're in the Legion, you are basically subservient to anybody who is MC. So anybody who is...idk, paying attention to RP, is not joining the Legion unless they are MC or just really want to be LOYAL EMPIRE PERSON, and if they're doing that, they're probably not in another faction since they'd be MC. Which means the only people going harlie/cruci/etc into the Legion are generally people with storyline/etc on the back burner. The disconnect is the fact that the Peacekeepers are not subservient to the Hammer. If they were, you'd probably see similar problems with the Keepers. Fist/Harlies/etc wouldn't be joining the Peacekeepers if they 100% full time answered to the Hammer in terms of story/RP. You have a tribunal that is an accessory to a Cabal. Other Cabal members probably don't want to join that Tribunal. For Lighties, you have the Tribunal above all the Cabals, so all the cabals can join it easily. Like..I'd really like to see this rectified, eventually.

Author:	jreid_1985 [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
New content-zones quests/loot More ways to earn tokens New skills/adjustments New class New cabal Incentives for imms to create and design content Loosen restrictions on builders Allow capable coders on the staff access to the code

Author:	Zelania [ Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
jreid_1985 wrote: New content-zones quests/loot More ways to earn tokens New skills/adjustments New class New cabal Incentives for imms to create and design content Loosen restrictions on builders Allow capable coders on the staff access to the code This right here reminds me of a conversation I had with one of the imms about 15 years ago, D doesn't want to give anyone access to the code. It looks like this hasn't changed much and even though I do like some of the changes over the last 10 years, when you consider the time frame, not much progress had been made. Honestly I don't have much experience with other Muds but there has to be something they are doing to hold a significant amount of players. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus but I think the suggestions made by the players who have been here for a long time and know the game in-depth are not being taken into consideration. I Honestly wanted to play a swashie this time and we know where that conversation goes. I'm not even so much worried about new areas and loot as much as corrections to things that are broken or useless. jreid_1985 wrote: Allow capable coders on the staff access to the code I think this is a good first step.

Author:	ladyjennbo [ Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
I personally DMed Dulrik on Facebook to beg him to allow others access/come back about a year ago, as I'm shameless, but it was to no avail. Maybe one of you who know him better could convince. (Other IMMs... or former IMMs.)

Author:	jerinx [ Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So dead and sad
ladyjennbo wrote: I personally DMed Dulrik on Facebook to beg him to allow others access/come back about a year ago, as I'm shameless, but it was to no avail. Maybe one of you who know him better could convince. (Other IMMs... or former IMMs.) one of the problems with that is you can't like...slap someones wrists into this kind of thing, begging probably hurts as much as helps but also pls help

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