Shattered Kingdoms :: View topic - builder motivation?

What is the builder motivation behind building an item with good stats/saves that "can not" be repaired in hard to reach PvE locations?

They seem like they are designed poorly from a player stand point because once you have said items you are more reluctant to do more PvE content. Also for the time lossed enchanting/consecrating. I am a lot more understanding of a easy to break repairable item than one that can not be repaired. Or hard to break non repairable. However I am curious as to the reasoning behind their creation perhaps I am missing something in their design rather than just seeing them as a frustration I need to deal with as a player.

An example of these items comparing. Some items in Ragi chamber are made of repairable material with great stats. Where items on the plane of earth with similar stats are made from destructible material with no simple way to repair them. Then if you look at the quality of the items. The repairable material is more resilient to damage as well compared the items on the plane of earth.
For the record Im not pushing one way or the other on this issue Im more curious to the builders reasoning behind high end items meant for PvP that effectively stop you from doing PvE due to their material.

I understand the reasoning behind not having adamantite/energy everywhere and I support it. The issue with simple secret methods I see from a design stand point. You either know about them and they are simple or your dont and you have to act like they dont exist.
The high challenge to finding out these secrets without insider knowledge is one of the many reasons why there are US vs Them stances in SK.

The issue with simple secret methods I see from a design stand point. You either know about them and they are simple or your dont and you have to act like they dont exist. The high challenge to finding out these secrets without insider knowledge is one of the many reasons why there are US vs Them stances in SK.

Many of these methods are not hard to find

This a very subjective outlook on things.

I do share most of my knowledge freely with players. When there are IC reasons not to I will normally share the knowledge is a harder to understand form or at least point out there is something to learn regarding it.

The issue I bring up that creates a divide between in an US vs Them is that there are so many "Rule" breaking devices in SK that knowing it is a rule that can be broken is the big secret. An example most people know is the blacksmith hammer recently (temp?) removed from the game. This is not a bad thing but the information such items thing exists is generally a guarded secret that many people could never know that it is something that could exist. Such secrets give an advantage which means people are motivated not share them. Your recent comment about having a solution that can not be hoarded is I assume an attempt to combat this effect.

Author:	Cordance [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:	builder motivation?
What is the builder motivation behind building an item with good stats/saves that "can not" be repaired in hard to reach PvE locations? They seem like they are designed poorly from a player stand point because once you have said items you are more reluctant to do more PvE content. Also for the time lossed enchanting/consecrating. I am a lot more understanding of a easy to break repairable item than one that can not be repaired. Or hard to break non repairable. However I am curious as to the reasoning behind their creation perhaps I am missing something in their design rather than just seeing them as a frustration I need to deal with as a player.

Author:	Thuban [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
There is no generic answer to this question. Every builder likely has a specific motivation for every item he or she builds.

Author:	Yed [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
Cordance wrote: What is the builder motivation behind building an item with good stats/saves that "can not" be repaired in hard to reach PvE locations? They seem like they are designed poorly from a player stand point because once you have said items you are more reluctant to do more PvE content. Also for the time lossed enchanting/consecrating. I am a lot more understanding of a easy to break repairable item than one that can not be repaired. Or hard to break non repairable. However I am curious as to the reasoning behind their creation perhaps I am missing something in their design rather than just seeing them as a frustration I need to deal with as a player. I don't fully understand your question. It might be easier to respond to specific questions about specific items. Builder motivations will vary depending on the builder and the area. Some equipment is designed to stay in the hands of NPCs, for various reasons. Some equipment is designed to be temporarily-used at lower levels. Some equipment is really old and may have been missed when objects were mainstreamed to better fit the groupthink expectations about what equipment "should" be and how it "should" be enchanted. Some equipment ends up less than ideal due to the overall "object economy", and the general balance considerations that brings. There are limitations on the best materials out there and sometimes an item you expected to be really good has to be down-graded to something less ideal. You may actually run into a different reason for each different item that seems to be poorly designed from your perspective.

Author:	Cordance [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
An example of these items comparing. Some items in Ragi chamber are made of repairable material with great stats. Where items on the plane of earth with similar stats are made from destructible material with no simple way to repair them. Then if you look at the quality of the items. The repairable material is more resilient to damage as well compared the items on the plane of earth. For the record Im not pushing one way or the other on this issue Im more curious to the builders reasoning behind high end items meant for PvP that effectively stop you from doing PvE due to their material.

Author:	Thuban [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
Cordance wrote: An example of these items comparing. Some items in Ragi chamber are made of repairable material with great stats. Where items on the plane of earth with similar stats are made from destructible material with no simple way to repair them. Then if you look at the quality of the items. The repairable material is more resilient to damage as well compared the items on the plane of earth. For the record Im not pushing one way or the other on this issue Im more curious to the builders reasoning behind high end items meant for PvP that effectively stop you from doing PvE due to their material. I put in all the new items in the Earth Plane. All of those items can be repaired via simple methods that you and other players may or may not know about, including methods that do not rely on other items and, as such, cannot be denied via hoarding. Let's just say there's a lot of undiscovered lore out there, and a lot of updates that went in in recent years that remain unknown. Regarding the material choices, it's mostly thematic. The items fit with what was already there in terms of the landscape and monsters. It's also not that difficult of a zone to reach or navigate, so it doesn't merit being flooded by top-tier loot (plus there is code in place that prevents us from just making adamantite and energy everything everywhere). Several items there are cabal-specific and are the way they are for game balance considerations. There is also a simple fact about this: those items didn't used to exist, so they weren't even an option before. Now, at least, they are an option for some people who might want them. Some people may prefer other items. Some people may prefer these. Some people may take what they can get, and some may have an aesthetic preference for one item over another (a large number of players base equipment decisions on how their kit looks, not just its functionality). Ultimately, these items represent a choice that now exists that didn't before.

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Author:	Cordance [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
I understand the reasoning behind not having adamantite/energy everywhere and I support it. The issue with simple secret methods I see from a design stand point. You either know about them and they are simple or your dont and you have to act like they dont exist. The high challenge to finding out these secrets without insider knowledge is one of the many reasons why there are US vs Them stances in SK.

Author:	Yed [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
Cordance wrote: I understand the reasoning behind not having adamantite/energy everywhere and I support it. The issue with simple secret methods I see from a design stand point. You either know about them and they are simple or your dont and you have to act like they dont exist. The high challenge to finding out these secrets without insider knowledge is one of the many reasons why there are US vs Them stances in SK. Do you mean this because you believe that some players have been given "insider knowledge" of how to find these things? Or do you mean this because you don't know where/how somebody might go about exploring to discover these things? I'm trying to understand how Thuban's explanation lends itself to "us vs them"? He has added a lot of stuff in the end-game areas that won't be discovered without people exploring. Are you saying that you think these things should be presented directly to the playerbase, without having to explore, identify, or lore to find them? Are you saying that these things should have more "pointers" in-game to help players find them in-game? Are you saying the challenge of finding these things is not the type of challenge that you want to play? Or did I misunderstand completely?

Author:	Thuban [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
Cordance wrote: The issue with simple secret methods I see from a design stand point. You either know about them and they are simple or your dont and you have to act like they dont exist. The high challenge to finding out these secrets without insider knowledge is one of the many reasons why there are US vs Them stances in SK. Many of these methods are not hard to find and can be accessed without a group effort or any specific class skills. What's interesting is that a newbie who is looking at the game with fresh eyes where everything is new and something to be explored might have an easier time finding them than a veteran who relies on an outdated set of insider knowledge to navigate the game. If you think knowledge dissemination is an area of friction on SK then you, as a player, are welcome to remedy it by transferring what you consider insider knowledge to the IC world. You can post notes, write books, or come up with other ideas. As the KD of Uxmal, I am always open to submissions for the Adventurer's Guild library in Teron. Maps, instructions on how to get from point A to point B, details about items, collections of item lore, or anything else could represent an appropriate addition.

Author:	Cordance [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
Thuban wrote: Many of these methods are not hard to find This a very subjective outlook on things. Im going to go back to when I first learnt about scripted items (before bards) to learn about a scripted and hoarded item the solution I found was to get the item after months of searching for it. Then selling the item for the information on the item. Then recovering the item again months later. Now days when I know an item is scripted I get a bard to look at it or I just take a guess at the standard words such items are likely to have. Some people might look at guessing a scripted item command word as not hard to guess. However some of them are next to impossible to guess. I do share most of my knowledge freely with players. When there are IC reasons not to I will normally share the knowledge is a harder to understand form or at least point out there is something to learn regarding it. The issue I bring up that creates a divide between in an US vs Them is that there are so many "Rule" breaking devices in SK that knowing it is a rule that can be broken is the big secret. An example most people know is the blacksmith hammer recently (temp?) removed from the game. This is not a bad thing but the information such items thing exists is generally a guarded secret that many people could never know that it is something that could exist. Such secrets give an advantage which means people are motivated not share them. Your recent comment about having a solution that can not be hoarded is I assume an attempt to combat this effect.

Author:	Thuban [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: builder motivation?
Cordance wrote: This a very subjective outlook on things. That was already implied when I said a newbie looking at the game with fresh eyes as an entire world to be explored, without access to insider information, might have an easier time discovering these methods than a veteran who relies on outdated insider information. That's a subjective difference in difficulty based on experience that runs contrary to the standard. Objectively, all I can tell you is that, in several cases, a newbie could discover these methods of repairing objects, which means it is not objectively difficult, so to speak, like something that requires multiple high level characters and the skill of a veteran to accomplish. It's meant to be accessible to a single player, even one without a great deal of experience, and that is by design. Quote: I do share most of my knowledge freely with players. When there are IC reasons not to I will normally share the knowledge is a harder to understand form or at least point out there is something to learn regarding it. I'm just pointing out that avenues to do even more of that exist, if you or any other players are inclined to use them. Quote: The issue I bring up that creates a divide between in an US vs Them is that there are so many "Rule" breaking devices in SK that knowing it is a rule that can be broken is the big secret. An example most people know is the blacksmith hammer recently (temp?) removed from the game. This is not a bad thing but the information such items thing exists is generally a guarded secret that many people could never know that it is something that could exist. Such secrets give an advantage which means people are motivated not share them. Your recent comment about having a solution that can not be hoarded is I assume an attempt to combat this effect. Again, you or any other player could post a note about the existence of blacksmith hammers IC (assuming your character knows about them IC). You or any other player could write a book about them, or about any kind of item or fact you think other people might want to know about. You do not have to rely on the staff to create every information resource in the game; you have the power to shape the game world, too. Many players have written books or created other such resources over the years. There is an entire library devoted to this idea at the Adventurer's Guild in Teron. It can hardly be Us vs.Them if we're both working together to generate content. As a builder, I will always continue to generate content either way; I'm just letting you know the door is open for players who want to, as well. I have worked with several players to get their content into the game. Regarding how there are solutions that cannot be hoarded, the secret angle wasn't a major consideration. I just thought it was good to have a variety of solutions available to players. There are some repair objects that can be used, and there are some repair locations. Each has pluses and minuses.

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