Attacking a Pet is not a crime, it's the owner's fault!

Ezeant · **Joined:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:10 am **Posts:** 263

Okay, I can't believe I reactivated my forum account.

Me and Jatine, my little buddy of Chaos, just tested this out after Qahz totally abused it hard the other day, and if an Imm would like conformation of that, I will be glad to provide logs. Qahz you dirt bird, you should not be exploiting bugs and think I no post log of it being tested.

Check this people.

Quote:

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 92%]

> score

oOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOo

o [Scores] Xavoth, T'vate, Sunderer o

o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o

o Status: Grand Master(1) Race: Human Class: Rogue o

o Kingdom: Uxmal Cabal: The Harlequins (Member) o

o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o

o Coins: 4 platinum, 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper o

o Carrying: 8/23 items Load: 191.5/325.0 pounds o

o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o

o Health: Excellent Mental: Fading Physical: Fresh o

o Attribute points: 0 Wimpy: 0 percent Mode: Kill/aggressive o

o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o

o You are standing. o

o You still have a long way to go before the next level. o

o You have played 570 hour(s) so far. o

o You have 0 of 15 loyalty tokens available to spend. o

oOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOo

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 92%]

> e

Jatine stops following you.

You run east.

Plains

A vast expanse of grassland spreads out as far as the eye can

pppp\ see. Lavish waves of light-green grass, about thigh high on a

pp*pp human, sway to and fro at the wind's command, scratching together

ppppp in a soothing sort of whisper. Inflorescences of flora offer

bursts of color to a sea otherwise dominated by green. Insects

sprinkle the air as they jump from flower to flower in a tireless effort.

Small paths cut through the long grasses, evidence of habitual animal use.

It's partly cloudy, mild, and there is absolutely no wind.

Obvious exits: n e s w nw ne sw se

A large, black horse looks restless.

A thick-maned lion walks in from the west.

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> l horse
The fur of this black horse is shiny and well-groomed. Its sleek form

bristles with power and energy, and it is obvious that this steed was bred

for battle. Its stance is beautiful and its attention is focused highly on

all that surrounds it.

His head is scratched.

His chest is bleeding.

His abdomen is scratched.

Overall, a large, black horse has quite a few wounds.

A large, black horse is using:

<worn as skin> fur hide (superb)

You peek at their inventory:

Nothing.

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> >

Jatine walks in from the south.

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> >

A large, black horse and Jatine trade places on the group formation.

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> cb It doesn't work if a pet attacks a pet either... You yourself must attack their pet.
[HARLEQUIN] Xavoth: It doesn't work if a pet attacks a pet either... You yourself must attack their pet.

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> l

Plains

A vast expanse of grassland spreads out as far as the eye can

pppp\ see. Lavish waves of light-green grass, about thigh high on a

pp*pp human, sway to and fro at the wind's command, scratching together

ppppp in a soothing sort of whisper. Inflorescences of flora offer

bursts of color to a sea otherwise dominated by green. Insects

sprinkle the air as they jump from flower to flower in a tireless effort.

Small paths cut through the long grasses, evidence of habitual animal use.

It's partly cloudy, mild, and there is absolutely no wind.

Obvious exits: n e s w nw ne sw se

Jatine is here.

(Charmed) A golden-furred male lion is here, confidence in his step.

A large, black horse looks restless.

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> >

Jatine says to you 'Put your lion behind you, I want to see something also.'

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> info

Group: Xavoth's Party

(F1) [---------------] (F2) [ a thick-mane] (F3) [---------------]

(M1) [---------------] (M2) [ Xavoth] (M3) [---------------]

(B1) [---------------] (B2) [---------------] (B3) [---------------]

Characters Rank Pos Here Follow Prone HP ME PE

Xavoth Leader M2 Yes No No 100% 48% 88%

A thick-maned lion Member F2 Yes Yes No 67% 100% 84%

[HP:100%] [ME: 48%] [PE: 88%]

> posi lion m2
aff

It's mild out today.

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine moves himself to position (M1).

A thick-maned lion and you trade places on the group formation.

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

>

oOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOo

o [Affects] Xavoth T'vate, Sunderer o

o===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===o

o Affect: 'detect invis' o

o Affect: 'detect hidden' o

o Affect: 'infravision' o

oOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOo

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> rem ritual
You stop using a ritual spider-shaped dagger.

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine starts to concentrate.

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> say Going to see what happens if your pet attacks me?
You ask 'Going to see what happens if your pet attacks me?'

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine utters the words, 'pabraw'.

Jatine gesticulates and suddenly a thick-maned lion is vomiting as his organs twist!

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

You dodge a large, black horse's attack.

You dodge a large, black horse's attack.

You punch at a large, black horse's chest, causing a big, bleeding wound!

Overall, a large, black horse has quite a few wounds.

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine runs southeast.

Jatine has fled!

[HP:100%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

You dodge a large, black horse's attack.

A large, black horse crushes your chest, barely wounding you.

You punch at a large, black horse's chest, causing a big, bleeding wound!

A large, black horse walks south.

A large, black horse has fled!

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine runs in from southeast.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> outlaw meory
There's no judge here.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine runs southeast.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> outlaw memory

Thinking back, you remember witnessing the following crimes...

1. *Attempted murder of Jatine by you in Taslamar.

2. *Attempted murder of Xavoth by Jatine in Taslamar.

3. *Attempted murder of Jatine by you in Taslamar.

4. Attempted murder of Xavoth by Jatine in Zhenshi.

5. Attempted murder of Jatine by you in Zhenshi.

6. Attempted mugging of Jatine by you in Zhenshi.

7. Attempted murder of Jatine by you in Zhenshi.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

A fallow deer wanders in from the northeast.

Jatine runs in from southeast.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> cb Aye, Jatine just cast harm upon my lion who was behind me. And the result was attempted murder of Jatine by me.
[HARLEQUIN] Xavoth: Aye, Jatine just cast harm upon my lion who was behind me. And the result was attempted murder of Jatine by me.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> cb Even though he harmed my lion behind me.
[HARLEQUIN] Xavoth: Even though he harmed my lion behind me.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> info

Group: Xavoth's Party

(F1) [---------------] (F2) [ Xavoth] (F3) [---------------]

(M1) [---------------] (M2) [ a thick-mane] (M3) [---------------]

(B1) [---------------] (B2) [---------------] (B3) [---------------]

Characters Rank Pos Here Follow Prone HP ME PE

Xavoth Leader F2 Yes No No 98% 51% 100%

A thick-maned lion Member M2 Yes Yes No 42% 100% 92%

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> posi lion f2
posi self m2
A thick-maned lion and you trade places on the group formation.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> > You are at that position right now!

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> > They aren't here.

[HP: 98%] [ME: 51%] [PE:100%]

> >

The wind begins to blow from the south.

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine says to you 'If the pet is in the second row and I attack him with a spell it still seems that you attempted murder on me.'

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine laughs.

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine cheers loudly.

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine asks to you 'Where did my horse go?'

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine looks around.

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine runs west.

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine walks in from the west.

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> >

Jatine walks east.

[HP:100%] [ME: 55%] [PE:100%]

> bug Apparently no matter what pet you own, if someone attempts to kill that pet, regardless of whether that pet is behind you or in front of you... It's attempted murder against the person owning the pet.
Bug logged.

I promise to abuse this by attacking all your pets, your pets only, and fleeing, and getting everyone outlawed, just like Qahz did to me yesterday.

FINAL ANALYSIS: You can see the results of my testing above.

NO MATTER WHAT PET
NO MATTER WHETHER IT IS BEHIND YOU OR IN FRONT OF YOU OR BESIDE YOU
IF YOU TYPE KILL <PET>
OR IF YOU CAST A MALICIOUS SPELL ON THE PET
IT'S ATTEMPTED MURDER BY THE PET OWNER
BUT IT IS NOT A CRIME TO ATTACK THE PET AND THE ATTACKER IS FREE AS A BIRD!

The war of pets has begun.

Your local friendly exploit hater.
Ezeant

Ezeant · **Joined:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:10 am **Posts:** 263

And it works in EVERY KINGDOM TOO! Woot! Get'em boys!

No but seriously fix this. This is such a bloody exploit.

NativeWolf · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:12 am **Posts:** 449

I have a log of this as well from Qahz attacking an ethereal person's pet and that ethereal person becoming outlawed.

FYI - Qahz knew IC'ly that this happened. Does that mean he is exploiting the bug?

Nightwing · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:43 am

Attacking a pet is not a crime. It's not a person.

Attacking a person is a crime, even if in retaliation for picking a fight with your pet.

Reporting said crime is in poor taste, but it's neither an exploit, or even really a bug.

Baldric · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:00 am

You're the one abusing the ridiculous law code by trying to not be outlawed when you are an enemy of the state.

jhorleb · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:42 am

Nightwing wrote:

Attacking a pet is not a crime. It's not a person.

Attacking a person is a crime, even if in retaliation for picking a fight with your pet.

Reporting said crime is in poor taste, but it's neither an exploit, or even really a bug.

It looks like this isn't quite the way it works, however, because the log shows the defender having their pet attacked, attacking the attacker's pet in retaliation, and getting outlawed for it. Question - if this fight were allowed to play out and the initial attacker stunned the defender, would there be any crime at all?

I disagree with Nightwing on this one - it seems like a clear exploit to me to attack someone's pet knowing that it will get the defender outlawed. It does make logical sense that pets would not be treated as a person with respect to the law, but there doesn't seem to be any way to set the code up this way such that it cannot be abused. What recourse does the defender have to not get outlawed in this scenario? None. Even if they're on mode stun and flee after the fight starts, they're still going to get slapped with attempted mugging.

As for Baldric's comment, tribunal leaders should have the ability to deathmark anyone they want so there's no benefit in avoiding being outlawed in enemy territory. But that's a ride we've been on before.

Nightwing · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:53 am

jhorleb wrote:

It does make logical sense that pets would not be treated as a person with respect to the law, but there doesn't seem to be any way to set the code up this way such that it cannot be abused. What recourse does the defender have to not get outlawed in this scenario? None. Even if they're on mode stun and flee after the fight starts, they're still going to get slapped with attempted mugging.

Turn auto assist off?

The combat initialization code is really buggy right now, and this is symptomatic of a larger problem that might have been introduced when Dulrik "fixed" the mount attack issues a month or so back (which has introduced a whole new slew of unforseen bugs). But your crime derives from auto-assisting: it is considered an attack against a foe not in combat (the caster that you are attempting to aim for, despite the fact that you hit the pet) that is causing you to be charged with a crime. So turn off auto assist, and it will work the way that it is supposed to.

To clarify, this is what happens from the game's mechanic:

1) "A" commits an aggressive action against a "B's" pet. No crime is charged (pets are not people).
2) "B", with auto-assist on, attempts to attack the non-combatant caster "A" (because the caster is not wielding a reach weapon, he is not considered to be in combat). A crime is charged.

I can all but guarantee that if "A" wields a reaching weapon (thus initiating combat first), or "B" turns off auto assist (causing A's pet to attack B first), then the crime would be charged appropriately.

jhorleb · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:01 am

Nightwing wrote:

jhorleb wrote:

It does make logical sense that pets would not be treated as a person with respect to the law, but there doesn't seem to be any way to set the code up this way such that it cannot be abused. What recourse does the defender have to not get outlawed in this scenario? None. Even if they're on mode stun and flee after the fight starts, they're still going to get slapped with attempted mugging.

Turn auto assist off?

The combat initialization code is really buggy right now, and this is symptomatic of a larger problem that might have been introduced when Dulrik "fixed" the mount attack issues a month or so back (which has introduced a whole new slew of unforseen bugs). But your crime derives from auto-assisting: it is considered an attack against a foe not in combat (the caster that you are attempting to aim for, despite the fact that you hit the pet) that is causing you to be charged with a crime. So turn off auto assist, and it will work the way that it is supposed to.

If that's really the way it works, I suppose your suggestion is indeed a workaround, albeit one I would rather not have to use. So what would happen if you attacked someone's pet who had auto assist off and killed their pet. Would combat stop, or would they start in fighting with your pet once their pet died? And if a fight did start, who would be outlawed?

I'd rather just see pets be considered an extension of their masters for purposes of reporting crimes to prevent this kind of abuse.

Nightwing · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:11 am

If you have auto assist turned off, and all combatants of one group or the other are killed, you can walk away. I actually did this a few times with Kirken -- I'd cast <cabal spell>, remove my weapon, and turn auto assist off. Then, when the other group killed my pet / NPC, I'd wait a few seconds (letting them wonder why <cabal spell> was still up and they weren't in combat), then walk out.

I'd rather see group combat properly initialized: that is, all characters with auto assist should be "caught up in combat" in the "opening round" (of initial attacks, when someone lands a spell or types "kill <char>"). This would prevent the aggro walk-aways that are so common at higher levels, and also fix this issue as well as a few others. But I'm not entirely sure that's even possible.

jhorleb · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:15 am

Nightwing wrote:

I'd rather see group combat properly initialized: that is, all characters with auto assist should be "caught up in combat" in the "opening round" (of initial attacks, when someone lands a spell or types "kill <char>"). This would prevent the aggro walk-aways that are so common at higher levels, and also fix this issue as well as a few others. But I'm not entirely sure that's even possible.

I don't understand what you mean here. Do you mean that all characters in the group, regardless of auto assist status, would be "caught up in combat" when their parties were fighting?

What do you mean by aggro walk aways?

Shattered Kingdoms

Attacking a Pet is not a crime, it's the owner's fault!

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