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Intimidate Issues
https://shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=22889		 Page 1 of 7
Author:  jerinx [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Intimidate Issues
Uncertain if this is "functioning as intended," but I've been noticing some things with intimidate that atleast could use a second looking into.

First one:

Code:
[Life:100% Mind: 88% Move:100%][Northern Gate of Nerina]

An intense male human recites a fine scroll of petrification, petrification.
An intense male human fades into existence.
A haunted female sprite yells 'Guards! A thickset make giant is trying to murder me!'
Angry spirits manifest around a haunted female sprite and rain curses upon Gorvik.
Gorvik's flaming bite slightly singes a haunted female sprite's chest.
Angry spirits manifest around a haunted female sprite and rain curses upon Gorvik.
Gorvik's flaming bite barely burns a haunted female sprite's head.
An intense male human cannot bear to attack your mighty presence!
Aurenna cannot bear to attack your mighty presence!


The help file states intimidate should only affect people in melee range of the hellion, but the sorceror here was well outside of melee range and was still intimidated. I know there were issues with being intimidated from rooms away, so I'm not sure if melee range is "same room" or "can be hit by the hellion." If the latter is the case it's not quite working as it should.

Secondly;
Code:
[Life:100% Mind: 88% Move:100%][Northern Gate of Nerina]

An intense male human recites a fine scroll of petrification, petrification.
An intense male human cowers away from your mighty presence!
An intense male human cowers away from your mighty presence!
Aurenna cowers away from your mighty presence!

[Life:100% Mind: 88% Move:100%][Northern Gate of Nerina]


It is impossible to cast on a group that's already engaged with the hellion's group, if the hellion hasn't started assisting yet, without making an intimidate save for each spell cast. A hellion is capable of making everyone make a separate intimidate save on each spell cast/item recited/wand zapped in combat on their group, while their group is already in combat. And if intimidate is in effect before combat starts, it remains in place even after the group initiation - protecting the hellion's entire group from anything cast, until a hellion deigns worthy to enter combat.

Both of these seem someowhat shady/bug-like, and quite abuseable (IE: hellion sitting in 3rd row making every spell require an intimidate save against people a group is actively engaged with fighting), though I've been alerted it's been like this potentially for a long time. I haven't been around to think it smelled fishy, but I figured I'd atleast bring it to attention.
Author:  spidermonkey [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
No once you have been hit with the initial intimidate you cannot attack them att all until it is released or fades.

That is not a series of checks that is a series of fails after losing the first check.
Author:  WickedWitch [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
Those were not separate checks.

Benedict and Aurenna failed their first intimidate check, and then were stuck fighting who they were already fighting until the hellion joined the fight. In Aurenna's case, whoever she was in melee with. In Benedict's case, noone.

The "cowers" message means you already got intimidated.

There is however a separate issue which IS a bug with intimidate apparently not dropping properly once the hellion IS in combat.
Author:  jerinx [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
I might have been unclear - apologies. No, if the check fails for the caster, there are no further checks, they're just hosed until hellion initiates/they die or run.

It can be a series of checks, because if the lucky party gets past the first cast and doesn't get intimidated, he will have to make another save on the next cast. So on so forth, until inevitably they get hit by intimidate and are taken out of the fight.

The short of it is that members of a hellion's party are not held to the same restriction as the hellion. That restriction being that the person can no longer trigger intimidate once the fighting starts. Members of the hellion's party do not drop the intimidate they triggered once they enter melee/combat with a group.

I'm wagering this is a bug, but if not it seems rather unbalanced. I can punch you in the grill, and you can put an axe in my face, but I can't cast on you.
Author:  spidermonkey [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
If I attack your hellion you get the cowers message, this means I have been intimidate, from there on out you will get the cowers message every time I try to attack you.

You can flee and come back into the room and I am still too intimidated to attack you because it has not been released or faded.

You need to go run some tests.
Author:  WickedWitch [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
spidermonkey wrote:
If I attack your hellion you get the cowers message, this means I have been intimidate, from there on out you will get the cowers message every time I try to attack you.

You can flee and come back into the room and I am still too intimidated to attack you because it has not been released or faded.


Yes. This is a bug.

The rest of what jerin is talking about is how the skill is intended to function, imo. I suppose we'll see.
Author:  Sargas [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
The proper way for this to work ought to have been that once Gorvik was ENGAGED in a fight, intimidate protection should NO LONGER have extended to HIM or whoever else was already engaged against his party.
Author:  spidermonkey [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
WickedWitch wrote:
spidermonkey wrote:
If I attack your hellion you get the cowers message, this means I have been intimidate, from there on out you will get the cowers message every time I try to attack you.

You can flee and come back into the room and I am still too intimidated to attack you because it has not been released or faded.


Yes. This is a bug.

The rest of what jerin is talking about is how the skill is intended to function, imo. I suppose we'll see.



Ok we got that in agreement.

Second part of MY issue is this extends to YOUR group wether you are in combat or not, you can stand third row, they initiate combat and we still remained to intimidated to do anything to them even though we are in combat. I said before it seems strange this works on the group like that. Once the group engages my mage should be able to tag your front row fighter who is pulling me and NOT be affected by your intimidate.

Once engaged then the benifits of intimidate should cease.
Author:  spidermonkey [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
Sargas wrote:
The proper way for this to work ought to have been that once Gorvik was ENGAGED in a fight, intimidate protection should NO LONGER have extended to HIM or whoever else was already engaged against his party.



Yeah this.

that was my argument before in the other thread but I lacked any form of cohesive thought at the time.
Author:  WickedWitch [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intimidate Issues
This is one of the few useful features of the hellion class.

Cleave being the only other one.

If they're going to eat a nerf this hard, they deserve something to make up for it.
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