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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:38 am
Posts: 803
Location: Milton Ontario Canada
SK Character: Umdon
Adder wrote:
I'm really bored, so why not...

Barbarian
Pros: Less combat versatile than mercs, but more versatile outside of combat. You lose out on trip/eparry, usually encouraging barbs to go straight damage with accurate damaging two-handers to take full advantage of the fury speed bonus. Alertness/counterstrike/toughness sort of balance out a bit the lack of defense- but i'd still, in general, rather have a merc over a barb in a fight.

However, you get TRACK. People are stupid. That's the long and short of it. You should always be flying everywhere, but people aren't. You can get so many kills by just making runs of the portal stones till you find somebody. It really doesn't take that long. Just track them down, eat a haste herb, run in and bash. It's over.

Cons: Less combat versatility. You also take more damage in combat on average then swashes or mercs. If you have a shield this helps offset the lack of defense, but you're WASTING your fury speed bonus. Slow damaging weapons benefit more from speed bonuses than fast low damage ones because they deal more damage per hit. Fury+haste=damage machine.

Just like swashes, IMO barbs have less potential than mercs. In the hands of a halfway good char, they can be decent chars. however, a major skill like toughness is USELESS to a great player because they'll always have the best adamantite. Also, good players will usually be starting combat so counterstrike gets a wimp. Constant DI/DH of prepared players negates alertness except for camo/sneak, which aren't used enough to really be worth it.


Some of the good things
Toughness is not usless not everyone and their grandmother can whip out a full set of heavly enchanted super armor. If your skin is as tough as say mithiral or adamantie then why need the super armor get some heavy enchanted sorta-super armor and your all set.

Fourth attack - weapon =Wild fighitng which is equal to pain
If you disarm a barbarian chances are it is going to hurt.. a lot do to the fact it is hard to parry their fist/nuckles/claws.

General thing about barbs
They are the most distructive (non spell plaeyer) force in the relms mercs may get specialize and swashies get finesse but you get a barb who flys and is good at disarming and you are fubar.

Counterstirke
A fun skill to have if whats their class wants to cleave you or a dumb scout wants to abush you (what I mean by this is if their foolish
eneough to ambush you in the same room).

Cons
No ranged weapons unless you arer a giant, which is a pain in the [REDACTED]. But again they are more likely to use the bow/crossbow to bash the heads of their enemy then use it to snipe them.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:10 pm
Posts: 2577
Location: Boston, USA
SK Character: Sorel
Since you decided to quote me in your post, i thought i'd do the same.
Kerrien wrote:
Some of the good things
Toughness is not usless not everyone and their grandmother can whip out a full set of heavly enchanted super armor. If your skin is as tough as say mithiral or adamantie then why need the super armor get some heavy enchanted sorta-super armor and your all set.

I didn't say toughness was useless. I meant it in the context of potential, in that if you were tied with a merc with the best armor in the game you'd completely lose out on a major skill of your class.

Quote:
Fourth attack - weapon =Wild fighitng which is equal to pain
If you disarm a barbarian chances are it is going to hurt.. a lot do to the fact it is hard to parry their fist/nuckles/claws.

Unless I'm mistaken, wild fighting = 3 attacks. And fists still don't do any damage to heavy armor. Yes, it'll still rape cloth armor and maybe light armor- but wouldn't they be doing the same thing with a weapon? An unarmed barb may be more dangerous than an unarmed merc, but he's still not more dangerous than either one armed. Additionally, your arms will get chopped off in a hurry- plus you can't use a shield to use brawling/wild fighting.

Quote:
General thing about barbs
They are the most distructive (non spell plaeyer) force in the relms mercs may get specialize and swashies get finesse but you get a barb who flys and is good at disarming and you are fubar.

How are barbs any better at disarming than mercs? And why would a flying barb be more dangerous than a flying swash or merc?

Quote:
Counterstirke
A fun skill to have if whats their class wants to cleave you or a dumb scout wants to abush you (what I mean by this is if their foolish
eneough to ambush you in the same room).

The usefulness of counterstrike degrades rapidly the more well known your character is (and the more battles you fight, the more public you become). People memorize your adjective and race and counterstrike becomes a skill that forces them to bash/trip you, not a skill that does damage. And i believe you'd only counterstrike a scout's ambush if you were wielding a reaching weapon (assuming he's behind his pet, which he should always be IMO).


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 416
Location: The 5th layer of Hell, New Jersey
Wild Fighting + fury = 4 attacks or if you are a griffon 5 attacks.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:10 pm
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Location: Boston, USA
SK Character: Sorel
Fury allows you to surpass normal attack rate the 3 attacks? Nifty. Still is no substitute for a good weapon, though.
Quote:
Wild fighting is the third level of hand to hand combat available only to
barbarians. It allows the fighter to inflict more damage than brawling and
adds a third attack if both hands are free.
Wild fighters are notoriously
hard to parry. Those trained in wild fighting are also skilled with claws.


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 Post subject: Look ma, no weapons!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 202
Location: the snow-covered realms
There's always the last sentence in the above quote...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:56 pm 
ROXED BY SADR AGAIN.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:30 am
Posts: 25
People often underestimate the power of a barbs bare-handed skills.
In testing against cloth or light armor a hasted furied g-str barb did more damage with their bare hands than they did with a fully enchanted claymore, now against heavy armor its true, the damage of fists cant quite match a good weapon, though it can come close.

PS: this excludes griffon barbs, 5 claw attacks a round is better than most weapons


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:47 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:10 pm
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Location: Boston, USA
SK Character: Sorel
Claymores sacrifice speed for accuracy. If you'd used something like a pike, which would get 4 attacks with fury, it'd do more damage against a claymore against light armor simply because the extra accuray isn't needed (unless it's a swash).

And there's still the problem of people quickly slicing off your arms with eparry.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:49 pm
Posts: 76
Adder wrote:
Fury allows you to surpass normal attack rate the 3 attacks? Nifty. Still is no substitute for a good weapon, though.
Quote:
Wild fighting is the third level of hand to hand combat available only to
barbarians. It allows the fighter to inflict more damage than brawling and
adds a third attack if both hands are free.
Wild fighters are notoriously
hard to parry. Those trained in wild fighting are also skilled with claws.


Sadr wrote:
There's always the last sentence in the above quote...


Adder wrote:
And there's still the problem of people quickly slicing off your arms with eparry.


Don't forget the (relatively few) examples of the "claw" weapon-type that Sadr alluded to. Althought I am unsure whether e-parry affects the item or the barbarian's self in this case.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:10 pm
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Location: Boston, USA
SK Character: Sorel
Eparry still hits the arms/hands I believe, but its been a long time since i've seen anyone use claws.


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