Shattered Kingdoms

It seems to me from reading Yegor's last post that he's interested in oocly arranging to alter IC matters - bringing ooc info IC, as it were.

Here's what it boils down to though, Yegor. Firstly, most good pkers are better than non-pkers at everything, including RP. I have seen, and been the recipient of, ooc conglomerates attacking folk IC because they don't play their character the same way. It usually doesn't end so prettily for the groups of people going "Down with pkers!"

There's a certain irony in people rebelling against PKers trying to PK them and dying.

Chances are, the "large and in charge" characters are the ones who can stay alive and make their enemies pay for messing with them. This is an RPK mud, and one of the major sources of power is the ability to PK, because war is one of the major sources (or outlets) of conflict.

PK is not in itself bad: its PK sans RP that is the problem, and in that respect I urge you to restrain from commenting on all those who participate in player-killing.

I love this quote... "Listen here, pint-size..."

Will you take me over your knee next? It's a game. If you really irritate me THAT much, I could just stop playing.
What am I, 7?

Eledan doesn't know you exist. Therefore, he cannot search you out, or try to impead your opperations in any way shape or form. If you kill him or otherwise give cause for hostility, yes expect retribution.

What I'm afraid of revieling is his methods of opperation. Eledan intends to work on an international level to further the intrests of his country. If you don't know how OOC, then it's easier to not know how IC. This topic is to cultivate better RP, exchange ideas, and generaly incourage poeple to improve their own RP.

The PK attitude I would like to discourage is prescisely the PK without the RP. If I'm rude and beligerant, kill me. If my country and yours are at war, opperate against me. If there are racial tentions between us, oppress me. If there's an appropreate IC, RP reason, act accordingly. But, my god, don't play a list of stats that bashes the crap out of PC's.

The lower level players should naturaly find higher level players to protect and help them. The higher levels should be looking for servants, frontmen, spys, and cannon fodder. Therefore, if you're a shmuck training in Teron, and some guy flattens you for your coins. What's more natural than asking Peackeepers or whoever is IC appropriate to render justice? And what's more logical than Justice comming with a price?

This is a natural RP progression, not a plot to PK Pkers. Robbery is acceptable RP, but so is protecting the victem if he's your countrymen, or seeking such protection if you're weak. ANY character is cappable of eventualy comming up with the idea of asking for assistance. DeMoNiaC seamed to be overwhelmed by frustration, and is probably new to SK.

If HE want's to PK Pkers, well... that's his perogative...

I haven't personally found that PKers are better than nonPKers at everything, including RP. I think PK tends to attract more notice than "fountain RP", and maybe gets more respect than those who try to add general atmosphere to the game in smaller ways... but that doesn't make it better, at least in my view. The discussions between honorable opponents who do NOT wish to kill each other can be just as compelling as meeting with swords drawn and hacking each other to bits and then cursing each other later. Well, that's my view anyway.

To say that most good PKers are better than non-PKers at everything... that's sort of insulting to those of us who try to play a character consistently, but who don't so much enjoy going out and killing someone else's character unless we HAVE to.

In the real world, most cops aren't vigilantes, most criminals are not murderers. SK is not the real world, but for those of us who try to play it consistently without using PK as our first and most basic response, I think we deserve a little respect as well.

Not that I expect we'll get any.

I'm certainly not against PKing, or violence in any form, as a source of conflict. I have enjoyed these things often, on both ends of the stick, and I certainly will again. Nor do I feel that game mechanics are somehow not a legitimate subject of interest or concern.

But. I do agree with Yegor that it's disheartening to see the extent to which these aspects of the game seem to... kinda shackle the imagination of some people who play it, and how this ends up restricting the experience available to everyone else. And I DO know some other newer players who are turned off by this, and by this belligerent Old Boy's Club attitude they seem to invariably get thrown their way for DARING to make reasonable, well-conceived, UTTERLY POLITE complaints such as this in a public forum. And this, my friends, is garbage. The "OMG GO PLAY A MUSH THEN!!!!1" crowd here would do well to OMG GO PLAY COUNTERSTRIKE THEN, in my humble opinion.

Or perhaps I should just phrase the same sentiment as "YEGOR FOR IMM," to alleviate some of the frustration own! is undoubtedly feeling as he gazes into the terrible vacuum of [REDACTED] b.s. to attack in your last post, even though he needs so very badly to violently disagree. Oh, the horror!
Yeah. Sure. I'll throw him a bone. YEGOR FOR IMM[TM].


p.s. Yegor, I LOVE how THE VERY FACT that people almost immediately leapt to the conclusion that you were secretly calling for PKing of PKers JUST SUCCEEDS IN ILLUSTRATING THE POINT YOU ACTUALLY WERE TRYING TO MAKE!

I'd like to point out that i've never seen that happen, or had it done to me. Not to say it doesn't exist, but that so far as i can tell it's incredibly rare. The only time i was ever killed without knowing the reason was on a lowbie i'd just made, and i had to go OOC (i didn't know the attackers name ICly but recognized it from another char) but eventually found that there was a semi-legitimate reason for the attack. Sometimes it simply isn't evident to the victim, and sometimes its all based on confused identity or a misunderstanding.

Then again, i'm fairly forgiving when it comes to "reasons." Having things they want when they're a gray/darkie is good enough reason for them to attack me in my book.

Adder you play as yourself, not your char. What virtues of the light is Sorel standing up for if he doesn't belive in forgiveness, mercy, or peace?

I once asked you ICly if you'd kill someone for stealing a single copper from you. You said Yes, probably. Now, that is the kind thing I can see your former char Izigul doing...but not the rigtheous leader of the Hammer.

Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on you. Your just a poster-boy for what is getting to be the problem with the mud. PK for a reason. Don't try and make some straw man defense.

You could say, 'Hey, it's Sorels RP that he hates thieves'

I say, 'Anyone can make a char thats RP can be molded to the players wishes, but a GOOD char is one thats molds the player instead.'

Now in reconciliation I'd like to say I like the RP you can do and I don't hate Sorel or you the player. No, I hate own, and all his chars.

hahahahahaha Lame K trying to talk about good RP, now that is some funny stuff.

IMO the best way to play sk is 1. remember the fact that it is a game, way too many people now a days get to worked up over it and lose sight of how it's supost to be fun. 2. When you make a char have a gen. Idea about their personality and make them have a flaw or special trait AND STICK TO IT. Another major thing that goes to the fun factor of the game is to stay away from the ooc factor. Way to many [REDACTED] out there just love to spread around ooc info, stay away from that. Let your char make up their own mind about who is in what group and who is trying to do/did what. Another major thing for me when playing the mud is when i'm not having fun and are bored, Log out. People tend to do some stupid stuff that goes against their char concept when they get bored.

Actually, Sorel does believe (or used to) in forgiveness, mercy, AND peace. There was a huge fight in the Hammer over this a couple of months ago when i had the truce with maighdin. I only no longer offer peace to the harlies seeing as how 1. they've lied and backstabbed me twice 2. they're trying to destroy the world 3. they still keep necromancers in their cabal. Sorel would have to be pretty stupid to give you guys THREE chances.

And if you think I'm bad, wait till I delete and Cyquoan takes over fully.

Besides, the Hammer has never really been about forgiveness, mercy, or peace. I think you're getting us confused with somebody else. We're the lighties who get to do the dirty, but necessary, work.


I also justified that decision ICly to you. Sorel has had a bad history with rogues. *cough* I certainly didn't hold that mindset when i first made him.


I fail to see why my char cannot evolve based on his reaction to repeated events in his life. I've offered peace several times to the harlies with a very simple and easy condition (to my char, anyways). I even was nice enough to not hunt the harlies after they "disbanded." If I wasn't merciful, i could have kept running you guys into the dirt after "disbanding," especially since i had blatant IC, harly testimony of you not disbanding. I didn't believe your story for a moment, but gave you guys the benefit of the doubt that you'd all go and live your lives out peacefully despite being in the cabal still.

As for my chars shaping me, how is that not true? Sarevin wasn't arrogant- far from it. Izigul wasn't either, really. Tried (weakly) to assert authority, but he was a bit too soft. My fault. Sorel wasn't even arrogant (he was incredibly quiet and timid to begin with) till i started to win battles. I'd never led a group -ever- that didn't end in failure till about 3 months into Sorel's life. Most of the earlier flaming wrecks have been lost in the void with 3's site's crash, but they were pretty bad. Sorel's personality arose from his own perceived "success" and "skill." If you fought 100 "battles" in a year and "won" 95 of them, wouldn't you become pompous? Arrogant? Overconfident? Makes sense to me.

edit: I'd like to add a bit more to this. I don't consider Sorel to be the "perfect" lightie by any stretch. He might think he is, but he's really not. He's all for freedom, but denies it to many who don't share his views (anyone who holds anti-griffon, pro-necro, pro-imperial sentiment, for instance). He impresses his own beliefs onto others (specifically, the purging of necromancy). Sorel will fight battles at the drop of a hat to prove things. He's incredibly obsessed with his self-defined sense of "pride" and "honor." He's most CERTAINLY not the "turn the other cheek" devout christian who believes that your sins can always be repented for. Sorel has limits, and when people break them he gets pissed. Easily prone to anger, emotion, and rash action as well.

Do I believe him fit for the spot of leadership in the Hammer? Sure. He's there to fill a need for hardcore, ultra-pro-active lighties. There are plenty of lighties who'll let you keep breaking their trust time and time again. Sorel will give you a first chance, a second chance, and then send the 9 man attack squads after you and anyone who's ever helped you by the third. I don't consider him any less of a lightie than the pacifists. He's not irrationaly vengeful (a quality of algorab's faith)- just because he dislikes the talents of rogues does not mean he responds violently to all rogues. It just means he has, perhaps, an overly hostile response to stealing.

I hope that helps to provide some more background for the things I do. Yes, i do make mistakes. Yes, i'm fairly sure i've done stuff that maybe wasn't the best IC choice and probably guided more by IRL emotions at the time. Am I generally satisfied with the way my char has turned out? Yes.

Would I step on less toes if I was a quiet, forgiving, peaceable, conservative warrior who was always willing to give the "poor, misunderstood" harlequins another chance? Perhaps. But as i said... a need has arisen. The end of the world is at hand. Somebody needs to, pardon my sexist terminology, "grow a pair" and beat the crap out of some people to make sure there's still a world a few years in the future. I've seen the Hammer get insulted OOCly, in my mind irrationally and without good reason, everyday since i started playing SK. I've -been- in groups that have slaughtered them so badly that some of them just stopped trying to defend Exile. Now that its at one of its most active and strongest RP /PK periods that i've ever seen, you better believe the cabal, with the help of its allies, are going to run over a few toes on its way out.