Summon: Voice your opinion

Lucius · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:49 am

Minette wrote:

I can see change #1 justified so summon will be carefully used. #2 would make a very interesting change. #3 would just encourage, in fact completely turn over to more group ganks because the lone summoners can no longer do it themselves. None of the three proposed changes discourage and stop gank squads, which was the spirit of the thread (?).

Given how the summon spell works, any summoner is already vulnerable, running at risk to counters in the same zone/area, as much as the victim is, to both summon and gate spells. There are some summon back/forth logs at MrP's.

I believe #1 will already make the spell more tactical and less used, coupled with no_gate + no_summon in all cities' main inn rooms where they provide comfort. It had been the place where players congregate, but due to large summoning attempts some players are less willing to go there. None of the three changes stop gank squads and players still won't stay at inns.

It's difficult to find new characters to interact these days. Arranged meetings by tells kinda take the fun away.

As someone that has logged 553 hours on a mage character, I agree 100% with you minnette. These changes will not stop group ganks, but rather encourage them.
I purpose we leave it as is... the greatest strength of this character class has officially ended if these rules stay put. No good...

However, if these changes do stay, perhaps make GATE take less concentration, or easier to land?
Or since summons is now slow, revealing and dangerous for mages, perhaps make it a greater and more far reaching spell? THAT would add more depth and color to Roleplay too. Just a thought...

THanks.
Jas

Adder · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:37 am

Lucius wrote:

As someone that has logged 553 hours on a mage character, I agree 100% with you minnette. These changes will not stop group ganks, but rather encourage them.
I purpose we leave it as is... the only strength of this character class has officially ended if these rules stay put. No good...

If you're saying that priests, necros, or sorcs are bad or even MEDIOCRE pkers without the summon spell, you probably should go back and reexamine your class.

Lucius · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:03 pm

I wasn't saying that at all idiot. You should go back and "reexamine" your ability to read in context.

Adder · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:38 pm

I'm afraid my idiocy is barring me from achieving satisfactory reading comprehension. Please, for the stupid among us, expand on your comment.

You quoted a post that talks about how the update fails to prevent summoning in groups.

Then:

Quote:

As someone that has logged 553 hours on a mage character, I agree 100% with you minnette.

Both of you play sorcs.

Quote:

These changes will not stop group ganks, but rather encourage them.

You agree with Minette's post.

Quote:

I purpose we leave it as is... the only strength of this character class has officially ended if these rules stay put. No good...

"As is" is vague, I assume you meant the way it was before the update, since in the next line you talk about how the strength of "this character class" (by "this" I assumed you were talking about sorcs, which i extended to all classes who can summon since the basic principle is the same) and how if "these rules stay put" (by these i assume you refer to the update) the class will be "no good" (by which I assume you mean crap).

Where did I go wrong?

Lucius · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:00 am

Glad you are seeking my guidance. Listen to Lucius, Grasshoper/adder.

Sorcs, due to the 14 trains in Art are superior summoners to other classes. That makes them kinda like summon specialists that you cannot find anywhere else in the game. This fact stands alone as one of their greatest strengths (like it or not) and I am not even touching their other abilities in PK such as sleep/charm/eject strategies.
Your rush to judgement in assuming that I am saying, "...priests, necros, or sorcs are bad or even MEDIOCRE pkers without the summon spell...", is demonstrably out of touch with my statement, as we are talkin about SUMMON itself, not Sorc PK ability.

I remember playing giant Barbarian characters and fearing the presence of certain Sorcs online, which was actually very exciting. That is all gone now. If my Barbarian was summoned now, I would probably have a good chance to run the mage down (either Immediately or later) and cut him to pieces. A mage that has little to no physical chance against me.

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:16 am

Er...what special Colombian plant have you been partaking of, Lucius?

Fepel Veiled · **Joined:** Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:53 am **Posts:** 1786

Lucius....

Put down the pipe, and delete your post.

Code:

That makes them kinda like summon specialists that you cannot find anywhere else in the game.

Yeah... and necros don't get 14 art as well. :roll:

Adder · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:53 am

Lucius wrote:

Sorcs, due to the 14 trains in Art are superior summoners to other classes.

Necros have 14 art and priests have 12. Those are the ONLY two other classes that can summon.

Quote:

That makes them kinda like summon specialists that you cannot find anywhere else in the game. This fact stands alone as one of their greatest strengths (like it or not)

Read above. It makes this statement completely wrong.

Quote:

Your rush to judgement in assuming that I am saying, "...priests, necros, or sorcs are bad or even MEDIOCRE pkers without the summon spell...", is demonstrably out of touch with my statement, as we are talkin about SUMMON itself, not Sorc PK ability.

The point of the update was to wimp summon. Nobody is going to disagree that it is a weaker spell now.

Quote:

I remember playing giant Barbarian characters and fearing the presence of certain Sorcs online, which was actually very exciting. That is all gone now. If my Barbarian was summoned now, I would probably have a good chance to run the mage down (either Immediately or later) and cut him to pieces. A mage that has little to no physical chance against me.

Which is why the mage wouldn't summon you in a solo contest unless it was to an area where you're outlawed. D was trying to stop summon kills, it's a bit late to try and advocate for the other side of the argument when the vast majority of players wanted the spell wimped. Besides, the "fear of summon kills" normally equated to hiding in no summon areas, which took players away from interaction with other players, which is what drives the MUD.

So, o wise one, where exactly did I go wrong?

Benzo Balrog · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:48 am **Posts:** 1306

Lucius wrote:

If my Barbarian was summoned now, I would probably have a good chance to run the mage down (either Immediately or later) and cut him to pieces.

A prepared mage would kill you and never fear your retaliation.

Fepel Veiled · **Joined:** Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:53 am **Posts:** 1786

Invis, if that won't work, then stone skin and mirror image behind a mount and a charm, in a locked room that you can't bash.

But with the new 20 second lag, they can just word anyway. *shrug*

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Summon: Voice your opinion

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