Shattered Kingdoms

For the love of Pete, you need to learn to read. I flat out said that would be collusion, which would be easy for an immortal to spot and punish. This flat out wouldn't work so long as the Imms state collusion is illegal.



Yes, a leader could attempt to come up with tests for every cabal but they would have a limited window in which to make the applicant jump through those hoops. Also there are is a minimum of three cabals that these tests would have to be preformed for. And that doesn't account the quick thinking player that finds ways around them or the loop hole that justifies them or the cabal leader that allows it for the greater good. To put it simply there is no absolute test, especially if the cabal leader allows a small sin to promote the greater good.



Sure you can make jokes about the Druids being a pain for building projects but a soldier will have little effect on that. In fact every example you list is nothing more then a stereotype that might only apply every so often. You think I'm not adjusting for split loyalties? Of course I am that is part of the fun of this suggestion. As a tribunal leader IF you know one of your members is a Druid, you know 90% of the time he is fine. The only times you have to worry is when his beliefs come in conflict with the tribunal's goals, and then it is a great test of loyalty. If the tribunal leader doesn't know the member is a Druid there is no issue at all. Seriously, you have to start thinking things through more.



I'm very serious and I guess the obvious is too much for you too handle. If the tribunal leader knows the player is a newbie there are less OOC corruption concerns as well as less IC corruption concerns then the average player brings. Therefore, there is less chance of a spy and an increased reason to induct the newbie. Not to mention by taking a newbie under your wing you build loyalty which is more valuable.




It has nothing to do with neglect by the tribunal leaders. There is no way to stop dual membership from the tribunal point of view. Hence, a tribunal leader must aspire to be a good judge of character in inducting patriot. He must also be quick to punish traitors. And he must find ways to build loyalty among his troops just as all good generals through out history have. Think about it, in the real world spies get into governments and armies. That can't be stopped just slowed; the important thing is how to handle it.

PS. From a dual member point of view, if/when a time comes that splits my loyalties, to me that seems like great RP opportunity and great fun.

Lei Kung

I know that if I were a cabal leader and a tribunal leader, I would force all of my cabal members to be in the tribunal and vice versa, then you could turn that kingdom into a stronghold for your cabal, as well as avoid spies.

THAT IS WHY I'VE BEEN SAYING LEADERS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE DUAL MEMBERSHIP.

I think LK's getting a hernia.

If I were a cabal leader and I had a friend who was a tribunal leader, I would join the two organizations. What's your new decision, LK - Leaders aren't allowed to be friends with other leaders?

I'm not necessarily saying I'm in favor of it, but I'm not sure how you can say that a merger won't work when tribs were spawned from cabals in the first place. They've already been merged in the history of SK. Back then, it was mostly just accepted that each cabal had a national identity and was more or less bound to one kingdom. This made certain types of RP difficult, but it worked fine for years.

A merger may not be ideal for any number of reasons, but it will work.

Peace,
Bux

Oh be friends by all means. But if the two of you act in collusion it is obvious to an Imm. If the Imms say this is illegal (which I say they should) then you and your friend acting in collusion can be and should be punished. I've stated this many times before, is literacy beyond you?

Lei Kung

So, wait, how do you propose making this a rule? I could have somebody in my cabal join a tribunal and take someone in their tribunal for my cabal...would I be breaking a rule? How about two people?

'Acting in collusion' doesn't break any rules unless there is a rule specifically stating that you cannot purposely try to get your cabal members installed in a tribunal...that already has a member in your cabal? I honestly am outragoeusly confused at how this would be enforced other than extremely subjective decisions made by immortals. Anything that encourages subjective immortal decisionmaking involving players cabals I am against. As friendly as I am with the fine immortal staff here, I don't feel like sucking anything in order to get my cabal members into any tribunal I want them to be in without worrying about some immortal harassing me for 'collusion'.

Do i have to ask the immortals every time I want to put one of my harlies into a tribunal? If an enemy tribunal member finds out that one of their members is a harly, and decides to keep him there to keep a close eye on him...is that collusion?

Joint Cabal and tribunal membership must have stated and obvious rules or else it is doomed to completely fail. Player organizations should be controlled by players, not by immortals.

What is the purpose of this anyhow? If you wanna do this why not just remove all tribunals and make cabals in charge of kingdom once again. Be utterly lame to change it once again.

I say it doesn’t work because it requires either cabals or tribunals to change their identities while destroying the other. Between 50 and 60 years ago the vast majority of women would not seek employment and in fact the few that did were looked down upon. And it can be said that family values were at a high and crime at a low. Now let’s assume that women being at home were the cause of the high family value and low crime. Does that mean we should destroy all that women have fought for in the fight for equal rights to bring back the values and lower crime? Of course it wouldn’t. Now I acknowledge that is a rather extreme example (I almost use a more extreme one) but the analogy holds for its purpose. Cabals and tribunals have evolved into something other then what they were in the past. This has changed the landscape of the game and many have put much time and effort into making it what it is. I don’t see that destroying that to accomplish a goal that could be met other ways as a working solution.

Lei Kung