Shattered Kingdoms

I seem to always play patriots, but it seems my rp always exludes me from Tribunals and cabals. Weird.

I figured a quick summary of the dual membership suggestion I support is in order after 46 pages. Note this is a summary and not a full discussion, please ask any questions/comments you might have but please be specific and limit them to a point or two in order to help me keep my posts shorter. Note: sorry about the dashes, that is the only way I could figure to keep an outline format

Dual Membership Suggestion

I. Changes for Cabals
----A. The organization as a whole
--------1. Remove 2 powers
------------a. One offensive, one minor
--------2. Remaining powers are concealed
--------3. Add Cabal Robe Skill (3 types: leader, member,inductee)
------------a. Wearer appears sexless, raceless, description preset
------------b. If kill in it all equipment is lost
------------c. Possibility all beneficial affects and MP set to 0
--------4. Add group casting spell
------------a. Affects economy and/or a country/city’s operations
------------b. Potency is directly proportional to number of casters
------------c. Casters lose cabal powers, duration inversely proportional to number of casters
--------5. Add cabal anonymous toggle – defaults to on
------------a. While on membership isn’t reveal on the who list (except for leaders viewing)
------------b. While on CBname is activated for cabal channel use (see below)
--------6. Cabal channel adds CBname and pcb
------------a. CBname player to chooses what name appears when CB is used
------------b. Cabal leaders see the cbname and actual name of character
------------c. Pcb allows for cb use between only two members, costs mana to use.
--------7. Oath-breaker flag applies but is removed upon re-induction
--------8. Cabal HQs are changed back into secret locations
------------a. Siege/epic combat moves to cities
------------b. Cabal HQs are no longer safe houses (currently they are for all practicality)
--------9. Fist is converted into a class
----B. Non-leader members
--------1. Allowed to join tribunals as well as cabals
--------2. Cabal robe can only create one member robe
----C. Leader members
--------1. Not allowed to be a member of any other organization.
--------2. Given extra ability to punish members outside of tarnish and un-induct
--------3. Cabal robe can create all three robes
--------4. Pcb will appear as leader or member upon leader’s discretion
--------5. Cannot prevent member from leaving cabal, but oath-breaker applies
II. Changes for Tribunals
----A. The organization as a whole
--------1. Receive two powers removed from cabals in thematic fashion
--------2. Allowed to take law enforcement NPCs into nation they are at war with
------------a. This will have an added cost to it
--------3. Add two flags; the honorable discharge and the dishonorable discharge
------------a. During induction, all discharges will be displayed
------------b. Induction after discharges are displayed is completely up to leader
--------4. CB channel is changed to TB channel
--------5. Eventually, siege combat is introduced to cities
----B. Non-leader members
--------1. Allowed to join cabals as well as tribunals
----C. Leader members
--------1. Not allowed to be a member of any other organization
--------2. Given extra ability to punish members outside of tarnish and un-induct
--------3. Cannot prevent character from leaving tribunal, but chooses discharge
III. Points of interest
----A. This allows for greater skill set options (currently 7 change yields 35)
----B. Secrecy in cabals is a choice, not forced
--------1. This allows for a greater range of possible RPs
----C. Tribunals become a much greater focus.
----D. Player Base effectively doubles in regards to membership potential
----E. Collusion is illegal
--------1. This is easy to monitor and enforce
--------2. Collusion is OOC like using bots, enforcement doesn’t affect IC RP
----F. The system would be extremely unique among muds
--------1. Might help to draw more players to SK
----G. Expanded skill sets and RP opportunities could revitalize player base.

I’m sure there are things I left off but this is most of the nuts and bolts. Comments, questions, and suggestions are welcome. I just ask that you be specific and if possible limit them to a couple of points when requiring/resulting in further responses. Thanks for you time.

Lei Kung

Dual Membership Suggestion

I. Changes for Cabals
----A. The organization as a whole
--------1. Remove no powers
--------2. Powers have the ability to be concealed
--------3. Add "enshroud" (3 types: leader, member, inductee)
------------a. Makes target appear nondescript
------------b. Cannot wear after having recently (10 ticks) been in combat
------------c. No beneficial affects
------------d. The shroud is marked with the insignia of the cabal
------------e. Automatically sets wimpy to 100%
------------f. Cannot initiate combat while enshrouded
------------g. Wears off 2 ticks after having been engaged in combat
--------4. Add cabal anonymous toggle – defaults to on
------------a. While on, membership isn’t revealed on the who list (except for leaders viewing)
------------b. While on, CBname is activated for cabal channel use (see below)
------------c. While on, cabal skills do not display concentration / somatic components at the cost of additional mana / pe.
--------6. Cabal channel adds CBname and pcb
------------a. CBname player to chooses what name appears when CB is used
------------b. Cabal leaders see the cbname and actual name of character
------------c. Pcb allows for cb use between only two members, costs mana to use.
--------7. Oath-breaker flag applies but is removed upon re-induction
--------8. Cabal HQs are removed entirely
------------a. Siege/epic combat moves to cities (read earlier proposition for the "Tribunal Raid System")
------------b. Cabal HQs are no longer safe houses (currently they are for all practicality)
--------9. Fist is converted into a class
----B. Non-leader members
--------1. Allowed to join tribunals as well as cabals
--------2. Cabal robe can only create one member robe
----C. Leader members
--------1. Allowed to join tribunal, cannot lead said tribunal
--------2. Given extra ability to punish members outside of tarnish and un-induct
--------3. Cabal robe can create all three robes
--------4. Pcb will appear as leader or member upon leader’s discretion
--------5. Cannot prevent member from leaving cabal, but oath-breaker applies
II. Changes for Tribunals
----A. The organization as a whole
--------1. Receive "bind", "barricade" as new powers.
--------2. Allowed to take law enforcement NPCs into nation they are at war with
------------a. This will have a rather steep added cost to it
--------3. Add two flags; the honorable discharge and the dishonorable discharge
------------a. During induction, all discharges will be displayed
------------b. Induction after discharges are displayed is completely up to leader
--------4. CB channel is changed to TB channel
--------5. Eventually, siege combat as per TRS suggestion is introduced to cities
----B. Non-leader members
--------1. Allowed to join cabals as well as tribunals
----C. Leader members
--------1. Allowed to join cabal, cannot lead said cabal
--------2. Given extra ability to punish members outside of tarnish and un-induct
--------3. Cannot prevent character from leaving tribunal, but chooses discharge

My take on it.

I still disagree with disbanding any cabals.

All of their skills and spells could be learned by a class. Scouts could learn to walk around and use a Druid skill. Necromancers could do most of the Adept stuff, and so on and so forth.

I've never played a Fist but I feel the need to defend them.

CB and TB = two channels

Don't split up MC it screws with their RP, don't let MCers join anything else, they belong to the Emperor. The Council is made up of advisors and COUNCILOURS. They have minions to be spies. Give them more NPCs to match others tribunals.

Yes, take away HQs.

I would lean towards NothingXS's take but with some differences.

....AND...

In NO way was that "brief".

Yeah I know by most any static definition of brief, my post didn’t meet up. But in fairness, it was brief in relative comparison to most of my posts.

Regarding the Fist I see they should be converted to a class for three major reasons.

-It doesn’t make sense that the martial arts are limited to the good alignments. In any good martial art movie and in most Japanimation I’ve see, which isn’t great compared to some *cough*Dulrik*cough*, the villain is also a martial artist.

-I believe the Fist skills are very under utilized by being tied to a cabal rather then have it be a class. And a big part of that under utilization has to do with the atmosphere being limited to a cabal and its ideals.

-Lastly, if cabal powers are to be concealed, I don’t see that as possible for the Fist.


I forgot to mention the splitting of the MC. I think that needs to be done for balance reasons if dual membership is to happen. I don’t believe it is fair to have an organization not have to worry about spies or loyalty conflicts. As for the RP concerns, I don’t see those as any different then when tribunals were first created. All cabals had to change focus and RP because of it. Thanks for the comments.

Lei Kung

I. Changes for Cabals
----A. The organization as a whole
--------1. Remove no powers
--------2. Powers have the ability to be concealed
--------3. Cabal HQs are removed entirely
----B. Non-leader members
--------1. Allowed to join tribunals as well as cabals
----C. Leader members
--------1. Allowed to join tribunal

That's what I agree with - and also why this thread should have been ended twenty pages ago before you folks all went off into la-la land.

Leaders should not be punished for being leaders - they should be able to lead both a tribunal and a cabal, if that's how influential they are within the mud.

As I said...why would the Hammers opening attack skill or the druids walking skill be limited to cabals? Or the Adepts ability to make corpses disapear be limited to them and not all other darkies? Or the MC's defensive skill? Why limit the ability to do better mounted melee be limited to the light?

Using the logic your using for fists you might aswell disband all of them.

p.s. what jarduck said

The leader of a tribunal or cabal shouldn't be in another organization, as a leader they can't have another master. It is a conflict of interest, and it is the same reason why the CEO of Sprint can't be on the board for Cingular.

Lei Kung

Actually, you are leaving out one of my major points; the Fist skill set can't be concealed. But to add to that, I don't see any other cabal skill set able to be it's own class. Maybe they could be added to give a certain flavor to a new class, but that is entirely different.

Also, as you point out, certain skills/spells could be picked up by anyone. I would argue that by redistributing certain powers to tribunals it would be more in this vein. After all, a certain kingdom might more skilled on horse back because of their military training focus, just like the Romans and their infantry.

Lei Kung

It does make sense to consider how dual wield would change the factions.

For MC, I'm inclined to agree it doesn't much IC sense to let them join other tribunals. I confess I also like the idea of one group being different. They'll just need better NPCs to match up to the variety available to other factions.

Fists, Hammers, and Adepts should have little trouble gaining entry to their home tribunals, at least.

But Druids and Harlequins - it's not so clear. What's an evil Druid going to do? Join the CoN and command undead? Also, Harlequin and Druid anarchists are likely to find themselves unwelcome or uncomfortable in law organizations.

I think, for balance, we need another group: an Uxmaln tribunal substitute. Certainly not a law organization, of course. Instead, consider a more shadowy group with an interest in maintaining Uxmaln freedom, and possibly seeking profit in extending it. Call it the Free Company.

It would not command Teron's independent guards, or have them enforce anything. Instead, it could pay lots of money to have bounty NPCs chase undesirables in Uxmal.

Members wouldn't be able to co-opt NPCs into being a personal guard. However, the spell-ups and pets available from group NPCs would be the best in the game to compensate.

I think this would be a fun addition in itself. That it would give gray and dark auras much needed variety in matching cabals and tribunals is a welcome bonus.