Shattered Kingdoms

If you can have one charactor in two organizations how about two seprete charactors in two seperate organizations?

That still opens you up for multiplay, Meztiso. I don't like it.

Discuss the question at hand please.

It's not two characters in two organizations and not a character in two cabals fepel, it's one character in one cabal and one tribunal.

If you consider related subtopics like that 'off topic', Josephus, then this thread went off topic thirty pages ago when people started talking about all these imaginary disadvantages you'd have to give people who took advantage of dual-wielding. The only on-topic statements would be "yes" or "no".

As far as I can see it, dual wielding has two issues.

1. Let leaders join a cabal and a tribunal at once, and give them the option to lead both. This will be good.

2. Only let non-leaders join a cabal and a tribunal at once. This will basically ruin the game for anyone with the talent to become a leader.

And

1. Let the MC be counted as a tribunal, and allow the members to join a cabal as well. This will give them no more advantage over other player groups than they have now.

2. Don't let the MC join other organisations. This will destroy the MC as a player group.

I won't belabor the problem of dual-group leaders making a hash of IC factions. Mestizo's civil war example is sufficient illustration. But I would like to address this supposed lack of good leaders if we don't let them dual-wield.

What makes a good leader in the first place? It's the ability to create worthwhile RP for their groups and for the game as a whole. Certainly PK skill is nice, and it may help a group achieve success in its goals. But any member of a group can contribute PK skill. There's no special advantage in having it be the leader. On the other hand, if your leader prefers PK over RP, PK over RP is what you get.

I would be sorry to see players of Jardek's caliber avoid leadership. That's why I suggested some compensation for leaders. But if the single group restriction also discourages PK-oriented players with limited taste for RP, it's a net advantage. We've enough good roleplayers to take up any slack.

Discussing advantages and disadvantages is part of the discussion part Dulrik wanted in this thread. However discussion double cabal or double tribunal membership was not.

I will once again be the Ultimate killjoy and ruin all your giddy fun. I will actually revert back to the topic of merged cabal/tribunals. That is, the proposal of making the Fist/Talon, Peacekeepers/Hammer, Council of Necromancers/Adepts, Druids/Guardians like the Midnight Council.

Hrm. I think I have to give this question a magnificent no.

I would also like to ask if Meztiso actually has lead or currently leads any Cabal or Tribunal. Until you have seen the rigors of it, you can't say you are not neglecting the work load. As leader you are moderator, ooc and ic psychologist, judge, jury, evidence, lobbyist, debater, and workhorse.

Two is too much, I suppose Slayne being badass helps him. Martial Law...

But to make a more understandable argument:

To make an example, I will take a relevant example, My Druids and Aelraen's Guardians. There are several reasons I will give for my opinion.

Working with such a great character as Aelraen has enhanced my playing and made the often arduous job of politics and leading a cabal fun and interesting. Because we work so closely and yet are part of two different organizations it forces us to interact. If it was just me in charge of both it would simply ruin the RP experience that has been Omnn's friendship with Aelraen.

It is also noteworthy that although Aelraen's player is very good and his character is a good guy, his character will never have the mentality or philosophies necessary to lead the Cabal. It is also noteworthy that because my Cabal has different circumstances from his city, we are able to function differently politically than Aelraen.

The Druids can go to a city and kill of necromancers or another group that we see fit to die a good RPK death. We do not really have to fear for more than our own safety. Aelraen, icly, has an entire city of people who he has to care about and tend too. If the Druids and the Guardians were one and the same, the Druids would be tremendously weakened by their new political obligations, which also go entirely against their Roleplay. The Druid barely even recognize politics, and I try too uphold this. The Guard would be weakened as well because it would not allow people who simply appreciate the city to assist but those who defend balance. The city itself would be largely neglected.

It would, realistically, icly, bring danger to the city and weaken the cabal. Working as two seperate entities brings maximum efficiency.

The only Cabal/Tribunal has and should always be the Midnight Council, because there is Martial Law. Slayne is the Iron hand of the law, as it should be. Behead more Orphans!

Part of why the M.C. Functions is because it is lead by hardcore, evil, oppressive charaters, and the RP works because there is Martial Law. However, in following in the footsteps of Avaleena, I doubt Valtari and Arsilan, for many reasons, will every even consider handing their tribunal over to Melithindlee. Not that any of them are lacking in exceptional roleplay or teamwork but it isn't fitting RP-wise for exile to be under the Martial Law of the Queen's Champions. It also doesn't make sense for a peace-oriented, enlightenment based organization, built on a principle of Zavijah, God of Wisdon, FREEDOM, and enlightenment, to dominate the city.

Between the difference in Roleplay, the difference in Purpose, the difference in Obligations, and the affect upon enjoyment for the player base, and RP, period, the cabals and tribunals must stay appart.

Two might be too much for you, but you'll notice in all of my posts I mention competent leaders and talented players.

If you are going to allow leaders of either from a cabal/trib to lead another faction. You might as well merge them. All that is going to happen is that someone will rise to the top of one, then go to the trib rise to the top of that faction and limit the opportunity for any good rp. No one would be able to separate their jobs from being the leader of a cabal and a leader of a trib. They would always work in unison and therefore, you might as well get rid of one or the other. If anyone says that a person can separate the two jobs, then I would argue then they are playing their char horribly.

Wrong. You aren't limiting anyone's choices by letting people choose a cabal and a trib. You are limiting their choices by remerging, which is what Dulrik wants to avoid.

Not only that, but people won't always lead a cabal and a tribunal. Given the fact that most of you are utterly incompetent, I think it'll probably happen a very small percentage of the time. Letting people potentially lead two organisations is nowhere near the same as remerging cabals and tribunals.

The end.