Shattered Kingdoms

OHHHH NOOOOS, you got me there! I mean a magical STFU spell is the exact same thing as making someone talk gibberish!

Songs of silence makes people unable to talk and cast spells so that should be removed from the game because it emulates your cabal spell!

Umm yes, effectively it is. Does it prevent someone from casting spells? yes. Does it prevent someone from giving orders? yes. Does it prevent someone from communicating with other people? YES. So...

It might be better if you guys could keep each separate argument in its own thread. I had no idea WTF you two were going on about until I read the spell silence thread.

If you say so dude, but you're missing the point that cabal spells are cabal spells for a reason. There've been countless threads about making a monk class and giving it fist skills, but it hasn't happened, so your silence spell isn't going in probably either. I'm not Dulrik so I can't really say, but if you're going to say that the spells are completly different, you're full of [REDACTED].

Moving back to the original thread, please tell me how my main post shows my total lack of game mechanics, I'd love to be enlightened by your greatness (no really I'd like to know what you think I got wrong in my analysis).

Songs of sleep -is- completely wicked and it's weird that it doesn't have a saving throw because it will effectively dismember any warrior class. One thing that -might- make it more reasonable without nerfing it across the board could be to make songs of sleep be targetable. I understand that the mechanics of songs is that they target everyone outside the group, but that is simply too powerful for this song.

Admittedly, there are ways to counter the songs, most bards will lose concentration with a well-placed magma spray, but for a class with scrolls (mirror image), or someone with a decent suit, that is no concern.

If the songs was targetable on only one target, bards would retain their potential in duels and still be decent supporters, being able to lower one warrior's potential drastically.

This way, a duo of bard/warrior vs. for example a priest/warrior would still be evenly matched, but the bard/warrior combo will be overwhelmed by the group of 4 they might have taken before.

What Konge said about counters is certainly true, god knows how little hp they really have. However, if its felt that it truly needs a nerf regardless I could accept with something along the lines of it takeing a portion of a persons enchantments. Say ...3/7, no thats not an arbitrary number, its one that would be proportional to a mages since mages have 14 art, while bards have 6. Sure you can raise a bards art cap to 14...but there's no way in hell that any bard would have enough points to afford it, so to balance it bards would have to get something along the lines of a Griffons additional stat points. Making it 3/7 of willpower from armor would simplify that alot IMO, but again I'm not really sure if its necessary to begin with since it CAN be countered both by deafness and by a single damaging spell on the singer. Furthermore, I don't really know how easy the 3/7 thing would be for Dulrik to code seeing as I don't know how you make a mud to begin with, but if its possible to just edit the resistance formula for a single set of abilities, that would be the easiest solution.

Note: the above would also require songs to be affected by art, which they currently are not, so if the change were to simply permit songs to be countered by resistances then bards would simply revert to the usefulness of pre-art sorcerers.

What I find most amusing is that darkies have been getting around the issue for 2 years via deafness and every other way that Konge mentioned above, but as soon as one darkie bard PKs...ONCE, there are cries for nerfs. No that doesn't change the skills and any changes that may have to be made, but I still find it amusing.

Bards suck, but songs of sleep is completely ridiculous, it basically cuts everyone's number attacks in half, instantly, with no save. And almost every other song is completely useless. Wimp songs of sleep and give bards shield block. I've tried one bard, and I plan on never touching the class ever again, it sucks.

It makes absolutely no sense that Songs of Silence has a save and Songs of Sleep doesn't. I'm not sure what Dulrik was thinking when he decided that. Make every song have saves and then give them some new stuff such as shield block.

And that last paragraph in Konrin's last post is a really good point(minus the darkies getting around it part, since the darkies have been getting destroyed for the past few months).
I didn't hear any whining the past what, year or so that Sithara's been around. SK's players are great.

Songs of silence doesn't have a save either actually...*doot doot*

That crap is broken. If you want to make bards better, make them harder to kill, and wimp the songs.

The reason noone plays a bard, is because they're the only class on SK who can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING by themselves.

Edit : *shrug* I've been told numerous times that 2 songs have saves, Songs of Silence and one other one.

I tested it out with someon the other day, and I believe that neither Silence nor Sleep are affected by equipment, but both still have a chance to be resisted based on level and base willpower. Songs of dancing on the otherhand, does seem to have a saving throw, so it might just be the 2 last songs that don't.